Overpairs that may not be good...
 

I'm not sure how to play these hands. Example:

UTG+1 Solid TAG
MP2 Loose passive "fish"
CO Hero, donkey extraordinaire

Hero is dealt QQ

Preflop:
UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls (as always), Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: T53r
UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero ??? (called)

Turn: 8r
UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls (very capable of holding KTo, or 44 here), Hero ??? (called)

River: 2r
UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero ??? (called)

Do we hope for JJ here? Is it worth it? MP2 can be pretty much ignored: if he had a better hand than QQ he would've raised somewhere, so he is most likely holding a T. UTG+1, however, is unlikely to bet AK on all streets, but he might be betting a lower pocket pair. How do we best handle these hands?

Re: Overpairs that may not be good...
 

nh

maybe one raise on the flop with the fish stuck in between, but given preflop action i dont blame you for not doing it.

Re: Overpairs that may not be good...
 

3-bet the turn. duh.

Re: Overpairs that may not be good...
 

nh.

best wishes and good luck and take care,

James

Re: Overpairs that may not be good...
 

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nh.

best wishes and good luck and take care,

James

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wow is it just me or is everyone in a weird mood this AM

Re: Overpairs that may not be good...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
nh.

best wishes and good luck and take care,

James

[/ QUOTE ]

wow is it just me or is everyone in a weird mood this AM

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please stop derailing threads.

i like the play in the hand. remember though, as long as the fish in the middle will call the raise(say on the river, for instance), villain doesn't need to show up with JJ or UI overs very often for it to show profit given the overlay.

best wishes and good luck and take care,

James

Re: Overpairs that may not be good...
 

HoneyBadger:

I think you need to call the river. For him it looks like you have AK, the fish can have any pair so he can be valuebetting worse (unless his preflop capping range is very tight, but since you probably don't know: just call).

As for the flop play: I think a decent alternative is raising, depening on how predictable your opponent is. If he is never going to 3-bet you on the flop with worse you can call a possible 3-bet and fold the turn UI. Otherwise you assume he has AK and you valuebet all streets.

Re: Overpairs that may not be good...
 

Mmmm, me like it lots.

Re: Overpairs that may not be good...
 

Imo, it is getting harder now days. I see some very strong players play 55 like it is AA. As such it gets very hard to put some good players on a 'normal' hand range.

As UTG+1 is solid it is safe to assume that he sees MP2 for what he is. That being said he can say you took the same line. That leaves UTG+1 in a hard spot, he can not let you lead the action post flop and he reraise because MP2 may get scared and fold which leaves UTG+1 in an unwanted position because you also have a hand.

It looks from here as UTG+1's action is that he has resigned this hand and future hands like it to splitting MP2's pot contributions between the two of you, and UTG+1 sees no sense making it expensive for the two of you to share.

Re: Overpairs that may not be good...
 

any insight into what the TAG's thinking is about fish and you? do you have any sign that he sees the conditions at the table the same way you do? if so i guess he would see the chance to profit from marginal hands with the fish along to sweeten the pot

only suggestion i would have is to raise on the flop freecard on the turn or river, but that is only an alternative to your play