Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

Hi all,

I think this post might get long and is probably not incredibly interesting, so thank you if you read it and I won't take offense if you stop in a few lines.

I've been playing poker sort of seriously for a couple months now, I've moved up from the tiniest limits (like nl2) to nl50 (6 max). I haven't played so many hands in that time span, probably in the neighborhood of 80,000 or so spread over 5 months. Alright so ever since coming to nl50 I've been unable to beat the game. I suppose you could say I haven't played enough hands to know if I'm actually losing, but I feel like I'm being outplayed often (or at least that too often I face decisions that are difficult for me even though I feel like after 80,000 hands they should no longer be). I've also been told by a couple 2p2ers who know how I play, talk with me often, that I'm pretty bad overall, way too weak tight and generally just a poor player both preflop and postflop (fwiw I agree with them). The fact that I've been unable to win has been very depressing to me, I have little confidence in my game and for the first time in a while do not feel like I'm improving at all. Is it possible I'm just not smart enough to win at poker no matter what I do?

I believe part of my problem is that 50 dollars seems like a lot of money to me, much more than losing 25 bucks at 25nl was. I'm properly rolled for the game so that isn't the problem, but I'm not exactly sure how to get to the point where I can play well and not think about the money involved (I can't even begin to fathom how the high limit players can lose several hundred thousand in a session when I think about all that that money can buy).

Another of my problems is that when I get on 2p2 I tend to drift towards the off topic forums, BBV and BBV4L (if you search my post history you'll see well over 90% of my posts are in BBV4L). I dunno if I'm the only one with this problem, but I'm thinking it would be best to just completely stop reading this forum (If only I had that kind of will power). I just end up wasting so much of my time on 2p2 reading the pointless stuff when I know I should be reading strat or paying more attention at the tables.

Alright so I apologize for this post, it's probably not that well thought out and maybe not even all that an uncommon predicament for beginning players, but I felt like writing a few things down and maybe getting some useful advice on how to push forward. I might just be done with 2p2 after this thread, I'm not really sure at this point, but a friend recommended that I post my feelings here before altogether giving up. If I think of something to add I'll probably post them later in thread (assuming anyone at all replies).

Thanks for your input, feel free to tell me how I suck, how 50 bucks isn't a lot of money, how you're a lot smarter and better at poker than me, how I'm being really over emotional and probably need clinical help to deal with my attitude, all of these things are probably at least somewhat true.

Re: Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

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Hi all,

I believe part of my problem is that 50 dollars seems like a lot of money to me, much more than losing 25 bucks at 25nl was. I'm properly rolled for the game so that isn't the problem, but I'm not exactly sure how to get to the point where I can play well and not think about the money involved (I can't even begin to fathom how the high limit players can lose several hundred thousand in a session when I think about all that that money can buy).



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U may not be a bad player, u may have just been on a long breakeven streak. If 50 dollar buyins effects the way u play, then definitely move down limits. When u feel that u are beating the game go ahead and move up again. U gotta be unafraid to lose money to succeed.

Re: Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

if you think that 25nl is just too small to play then move up to 50nl but sit with $25... i did this and it became successful like i did... 50nl is hard to make money due to the variance i found but is possible if you have a big bank roll

Re: Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you think that 25nl is just too small to play then move up to 50nl but sit with $25... i did this and it became successful like i did... 50nl is hard to make money due to the variance i found but is possible if you have a big bank roll

[/ QUOTE ]
wow don't do this

Re: Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

The best way to deal with how the money affects you, is just to stick it out (unless you become underrolled at some point) rather than move down. In time, you'll get used to it.

As for beating the game, you are def. good enough drizzle. Your sample size is really much too small at the 50nl level to mean anything at all. If in 50k hands you still feel this way and are a slight winner or a loser, then maybe this post has some merit. When you say other 2p2ers say you play poorly, they may say that you play a certain hand poorly (everyone does, no one is perfect) and they are really just trying to help you plug leaks that they can see. This is really just a self confidence issue.

Re: Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

Whenever I moved up a limit I sat it half-stacked and found it really helped psychologically. You just have to get in the hands at that limit until it becomes normal.

Also, anyone is capable of beating nl50, just work at it.

Regards, Punter

Re: Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

Whatever your browser bookmark is for 2+2, change it to the micro NL forum index.

Re: Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

Interesting, I was just going to post about having this very problem. First, I say read Poker Mindset, but I tell everyone that. Second, learning to do this well is like the most intensive therapy you can go through, but more effective.

My version of this is: after I have a really great winning session (you know, the once in a blue moon dream session) I'm afraid to play. Suddenly, it's MONEY. Doesn't matter which game or what limit. And I know I can lose it as easily as I won it. I start playing that weak/tight [censored].

Here's the deal - doesn't alwys help me, but sometimes it does: you can't win that way and it's a lousy way to play. Screw it - money online isn't your money, anyway - not in your account. Have some fun, call ridiculous crap, donk off a couple hands, then settle down and play your game.

Turn the chat off. Stop talking in forums or anywhere to people who trash your confidence.

If you are playing at the level you say, you gotta be pretty good. Quit obsessing about it and go play your game. Yours. Not some game you think you oughta be playing.




(Someday I gotta take my own advice.....)

Re: Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

Get the 2+2 book, The Psychology of Poker. Take the self-assessment test. You might be surprised to find that the "reason" you play poker is something other than to make money. Maybe its the "social" aspect of the forums and ring games. My point is that there are many different reasons that people play this game. And the ones who consistently make money are the ones playing primarily to try and make money.

It's worth the time to fill out the questions and assess your own reasons for playing cards.

After that, I doubt you're not smart enough for poker. But I also doubt that you are aggressively assessing your game, trying different things, reading all of the best books, and posting enough in the stat forums on hands that you question after the fact.

Re: Probably a common enough problem, wanted to get some input
 

If you don't feel comfy at the level don't play at it. Playing scared is going to make you tighter and weaker. Doesn't matter if you're rolled according to br management laws, get rolled to where 50 bucks doesn't matter. Maybe you need 50 buy ins to be comfy. Some people do. Find a level where you have no problem pushing and oesfd on the flop. Play there.