Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t800 with t75 antes (5 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t27222)
CO (t25571)
Button (t18391)
SB (t32159)
Hero (t21844)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls t800, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, SB calls t400, <font color="red">Hero raises to t4000</font>, UTG calls t3200, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>

Flop: (t9975) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets t8000</font>, UTG calls t8000

Turn: (t25975) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ??

10 left; pay increases marginally for 9th place. Not enough that I am worried about going out 10th.

No real read on villain, except that he snap-called pre-flop (which made me think he had something like a medium pocket pair) and snap-called on the flop.

What's my line here?

Re: Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

Preflop I check. I would raise if utg can fold. Maybe this is a leak, but I don't steal like this in 4.4/180s cause no one folds. I need something better then K9o. I shove the flop, you have tp on a super wet board. I'm happy to end the hand early if I can oop. The turn there's too much money to not shove.

Re: Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

One of two ways to go about this:

1. Admit you lose and check/fold.

2. Go broke here all day.

The only reason you would do #2 is because you feel as though you're ahead enough to his bets that it's worth it to make showdown.

So how do you go about making showdown here (i.e. making a hand that's not a flush pay you off).


Whatever you do, don't bet. Either way you look at it, betting here makes non-flushes fold and makes flushes stack you.


However, if you check, a strong K or any pair might simply jam to represent the flush. Hell, a very wide variety of hands are doing the same.

If you check/fold here, you have an M under 10 and are in danger, but not horribly so.

That said, your steal was a little much in general and I wouldn't recommend it much.

Re: Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

What was wrong with the steal if you all don't mind specifying?

I've found there is a lot of fold equity when blinds are this high and it's deep. If he pushed over the top pre-flop, I'd obviously fold, but I've found spots like this to be immensely profitable. A lot more profitable than raising from the button or SB when it's folded to you, in my experience, since people are so stupidly defensive of their blinds.

Re: Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

I don't like to make this raise pf against an UTG limper with no reads but I assume an UTG limp means different things in a 4.40 than in the games I normally play.

As played you should sometimes check-call and sometimes check-fold. You should probably check-call more than check-fold because of pot odds but you should probably check-fold more than you check-call because he snap called the flop making a draw more likely. I have no problem with what you do here as long as you don't lead out on the turn.

edit: check-call assumes that his turn bet is a shove. If the turn checks through then I check-call the river sometimes and check-fold the river sometimes

glad I could give you such a precise response

Re: Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

I agree with dueces line here.

You do not have a difficult decision on the turn as the chips are going in here its just a matter of how.

Will a shove fold out baby flushes or small spades ?
Will hands we are ahead of call a shove ?
As we are getting the chips in here will a hand thats behind bet the turn/river ?

Re: Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

[ QUOTE ]

glad I could give you such a precise response

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad my thinking of it being really close between c/c c/f wasn't off by your response.


FWIW even though the utg limp is generally weak I prefer some kind of read to make a play here. Too many people will just call down with all sorts of crap here. Though this late and on the FT bubble it's probably ok.

Re: Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

ger,
do you play poker to minimize difficult decisions or to maximize equity?

Re: Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
What was wrong with the steal if you all don't mind specifying?

I've found there is a lot of fold equity when blinds are this high and it's deep. If he pushed over the top pre-flop, I'd obviously fold, but I've found spots like this to be immensely profitable. A lot more profitable than raising from the button or SB when it's folded to you, in my experience, since people are so stupidly defensive of their blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because your steal was on a UTG limper with 10 people left. I equate this to top 100 of a 1200+ field play. Typically making moves here costs you big stacks more frequently than you make small pots.

That said, deep game with medium-to-short stacks who understand fold equity and punishing limpers, I limp monsters knowing they will see "big pot, limpers, fold equity, jam".

My last big MTT, I waited 2 hours to get a monster in EP to take advantage of this. It never came and my table eventually turned into the FT, but I noticed hours beforehand that all EP and MP limpers were jammed into by medium stacks. A few guys even caught on like I did. Watched a lot of UTG limps of JJ that ran into jammed KJs, AA that had QJ jammed into it and sucked out, etc.

Fun part was that all the slowplayers got reamed doing it, but that's bad luck.

Re: Deep in $4.40 PS 180-man - Steal attempt faces difficult decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
ger,
do you play poker to minimize difficult decisions or to maximize equity?

[/ QUOTE ]

I try to play to maximize equity. I do not think that the turn is difficult because if I put anymore chips in on the flop they are all going in. The key as you quite rightly point out is to get them in by gaining the most equity from the hand.

Flop:
Once we get to this flop a resonable sized c-bet commits him. Whatever calls a bet will call a shove whether we are ahead or not. We can debate whether we gain more equity by shoving or betting the flop.

Turn:
OP stated he did not mind finishing 10th so I assumed that he was putting in his chips. I do not think that we can gain any more equity by shoving or check calling As i doubt we are folding a hand thats ahead. I do not think a hand without a spade thats behind us calls a shove or bets the turn or river.

Sometimes you need to minimize difficult decisions. This can be done by not building a big pot OOP in the first place. Check Pre Flop.