When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

I display WTSD (Went to showdown) as one of my PAHUD stats. A few days ago I posted a hand were I had played 70 hands with villian and he had a WTSD of 28%. I tried to bluff the guy and a few people said this guy has too high a WTSD to be bluffing...

Today I played a session of Full Ring that was 561 hands long. I played approximately 15/10 over the different limits and my WTSD was 34% over these 561 hands. None of it was shorthanded either. However, my normal WTSD is 23%.

It seems like since most hands do not go to showdown that this number may take a lot longer to stablize than many of us realize. How many hands would you guys suggest you need before you can really trust the number? Obviously I'm still going to use what data I have even if I have 70 hands... I just might not weight it as much in my decisions next time. Thoughts?

Re: When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

My WTSD over samples of 5 to 8k hands in basically the same games vary from 20 to 28, so yeah this is data seems to require some solide sample.

IMO anything under 500 hands is irrelevant unless in extreme cases.

Re: When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

Using the info of WSD is good when combined with the Won$SD figure and i have found 4 to 5 hundred hands to be fairly indicative and 700+ hands very accurate.

Re: When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

If you haven't worked out he's a station by the time it converges then you must be very slow. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

Using just raw went to showdown without showing how aggressive a person is is not a wise metric on how big of a station a person is.

Re: When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

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Using just raw went to showdown without showing how aggressive a person is is not a wise metric on how big of a station a person is.

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Yea I agree. I use the AG, PFR, and Cold Call Pre in conjunction to help determine that. Do you have any other stats you like for determining calling stations?

Re: When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

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Using the info of WSD is good when combined with the Won$SD figure and i have found 4 to 5 hundred hands to be fairly indicative and 700+ hands very accurate.

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Why would we use Won$SD over Won%SD? I guess the % could be skewed by a lot of limped pots that got checked down? Won$SD doesn't seem incredibly helpful either as a person could win a stack on a coinflip and thus have a large Won$SD for a long time.

Re: When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

I still don't use WTSD. I have thought about paying attention to it many times, but I still don't. Generally, I look at "fold to river bet" and "fold to turn bet" much more. What value am I missing by not using WTSD? (serious question)

Re: When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

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I still don't use WTSD. I have thought about paying attention to it many times, but I still don't. Generally, I look at "fold to river bet" and "fold to turn bet" much more. What value am I missing by not using WTSD? (serious question)

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The stats you mentioned sound like they might be more useful. Do you actually have these on your HUD layout or as the stats you click and appear?

Re: When do the WTSD #s start to matter?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still don't use WTSD. I have thought about paying attention to it many times, but I still don't. Generally, I look at "fold to river bet" and "fold to turn bet" much more. What value am I missing by not using WTSD? (serious question)

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The stats you mentioned sound like they might be more useful. Do you actually have these on your HUD layout or as the stats you click and appear?

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Click.