Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

Everyone was pretty much unknown since i just sat down.

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
7 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, MP1 (poster) checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8SB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

I've come to realize that i cbet too much. Here im out of position and the board isn't exactly raggy, but I do have over cards, gs and a bdfd. I know it's a bit weak to 3bet and then not follow it on the flop, but im sure there are flops you don't wanna do it. Im not sure if this is one of them.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6BB, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO 3-bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Im not sure if the raise was good or spew. It was pretty obvious to anyone who was paying attention that i had AQ, AK. I'd like a raise more if the turn was a K. CO could've hit AJ, AT, but if some one's on a draw or has a worse hand, i wanna make them pay. After CO 3bets, i knew i was dead, but i could hit my straight, although i wouldn't want it to be [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] would be nasty too. Even then i might be splitting the pot.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (15BB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Here i just call, " what ever, just one bet" i think.

Re: Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

This is a flop you want to be c-betting. Checking here turns your hand pretty much face up to be AK or AQ and the hand is harder to play.

Pots big but it looks like CO hit his two pair on the turn but I can't fold this for one.

Re: Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

Flop is fine.

From the turn, I just try to get to SD cheaply. What range does CO have that raise/calls PF and bets the flop?

QQ-TT,33,ATs+,KTs+,QJs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo+,JTo
that's probably a pretty good guess, and we'll give MP1 a random hands although MP1 maybe a bit stronger since he called 2 after your 3 bet. SB, we'll give any Ace because of the turn donk, although his hand is not greatly defined.

With this range you are a bit behind on the turn, but it would absolutely absolutely suck to get 3 bet.

3,024,105 games 98.734 secs 30,628 games/sec

Board: Js 3s Th Ah
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.872% 30.08% 04.79% 909565 145000.83 { AsKd }
Hand 1: 09.063% 08.30% 00.76% 251064 23000.50 { random }
Hand 2: 14.858% 13.03% 01.83% 394072 55256.33 { A2s+, A2o+ }
Hand 3: 41.207% 37.70% 03.51% 1140131 106016.33 { QQ-TT, 33, ATs+, KTs+, QJs, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo, JTo }



If you add KQ to SBs range, you equity obviously get worse.

Re: Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

I'm not c-betting here either. It's quite likely someone's got a made hand or a draw on that flop so you have little fold equity.

Re: Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

i cbet here fwiw

Re: Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

4 handed there arent many flops you should be Cbetting with here UI after a preflop three bet, FWIW. of course you'll be giving your hand away, but b/c the pot is large no ones folding if you turn or river an A, K, or Q anyway, unless they have nothing.

thus, dont Cbet this flop.

3 handed or heads up and i'll take a stab.

Re: Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

i think we need to c-bet here for sure. as for the turn i think he might have n e thing from AJ A10 to KQ i think we need to call down but i would have bet the flop

Re: Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think we need to c-bet here for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

what does cbetting accomplish here exactly?

C betting for the sake of C betting doesnt make much sense.

Re: Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

We got lots of outs, pot is decent, time to do something that increase our chances of winning. Check calling doesn't do that. If I remember right there's an example in SSHE almost exactly like this hand.

Re: Not c-betting ? Then raising ?
 

I think I play this flop the same way that you did. Reason being with 2 medium connectors and a 2 flush, in addition to 3 opponents, I normally expect multiple opponents to be at least drawing to a big hand. So, I don't think betting out here is going to substantially increase your chances of winning as you will usually get at least a couple of callers.

In the heat of battle, I think I probably wind up raising the turn like you did, but having time to sit here and think about it the hands in CO's range are probably AK (8 remaining ways--since you already have one of them), AQ (16 ways), AJ (16 ways) , AT (16 ways) , KK (6 ways) , KQ (16 ways) , KJs (4 ways), QQ (6 ways), JJ (6 ways), TT (6 ways).

Unless I'm miscalculating, looks to me like you are ahead of 32 of those possible combinations, tied with 8 of them, and behind to 60 of them. So, because you are still losing most of the time, it looks to me like the turn is spew.

I'm calling it down from the turn.