200NL - JJ vs PF squeeze on Q-high flop
 

I'm around 26/20/4 with 38% attempt to steal. SB is 30/18/1.5 over 180 hands today. I don't recall him 3-betting my LP opening bets too much. He is running at -50PTBB/100 or so. Nevermind button, who cares about the shortstack retard.

Prima Network No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG ($39.95)
MP ($97.50)
Hero ($187.70)
<font color="#C00000">Button ($32.00)</font>
<font color="#C00000">SB ($182.00)</font>
BB ($117.05)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, Button calls $8, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $27</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $19, Button calls $19.

Flop: ($83) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $50</font>

Re: 200NL - JJ vs squeeze on Q-high flop
 

Fold. If you thought he was raising less than QQ+/AK then you need to 4-bet preflop. Otherwise, you are just mining for a set and you didn't hit one.

Re: 200NL - JJ vs squeeze on Q-high flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you thought he was raising less than QQ+/AK then you need to 4-bet preflop. Otherwise, you are just mining for a set and you didn't hit one.

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I'm not sure that is necessarily true.

Re: 200NL - JJ vs squeeze on Q-high flop
 

i dont agree dog

i'd probablly call once op pf is fine 4b is bad

Re: 200NL - JJ vs squeeze on Q-high flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you thought he was raising less than QQ+/AK then you need to 4-bet preflop. Otherwise, you are just mining for a set and you didn't hit one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that is necessarily true.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Then raise his flop bet to make sure you get your money in when you are a dog to his range and no chance of folding a better hand.

Seriously, if you don't have a read that tells you otherwise, you need to assume a 3-bet is QQ+/AK.

Re: 200NL - JJ vs squeeze on Q-high flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont agree dog

i'd probablly call once op pf is fine 4b is bad

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying to fold preflop. I'm saying that you should 4-bet this hand preflop if you have a read that he is 3-betting more liberal than premium hands.

Re: 200NL - JJ vs squeeze on Q-high flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont agree dog

i'd probablly call once op pf is fine 4b is bad

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, say you call. If he bets turn, regardless what comes (except a J), we fold, right? If he checks turn, are you betting? If we check behind turn, aren't we setting ourselves up for a river bluff that we can't call? Any plan for when another overcard or a spade comes? What if two blanks come?

Re: 200NL - JJ vs squeeze on Q-high flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont agree dog

i'd probablly call once op pf is fine 4b is bad

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying to fold preflop. I'm saying that you should 4-bet this hand preflop if you have a read that he is 3-betting more liberal than premium hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

My read is that he hasn't been 3-betting light so much that I'd notice it. However, my image for LP opens is crappy and he is aggressive, so his range shouldn't necessarily be limited to QQ+, AK.

Re: 200NL - JJ vs squeeze on Q-high flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont agree dog

i'd probablly call once op pf is fine 4b is bad

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, say you call. If he bets turn, regardless what comes (except a J), we fold, right? If he checks turn, are you betting? If we check behind turn, aren't we setting ourselves up for a river bluff that we can't call? Any plan for when another overcard or a spade comes? What if two blanks come?

[/ QUOTE ]

These are the questions we ask when we make dumb flop calls and don't have a clue as to what our opponent might be 3-betting.

Re: 200NL - JJ vs squeeze on Q-high flop
 

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These are the questions we ask when we make dumb flop calls and don't have a clue as to what our opponent might be 3-betting.

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I don't understand why you insist that we don't have a clue. Sure, we don't know his exact range, but I don't play against that many players where I do know this.

If we say this is his range:

- JJ+
- AK
- AQs
- one AJs and KQs combo, one TT and 99 combo

I imagine we'd be pretty close.