Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

This is something that happens fairly often from players of all different types, so I figured I'd post a few hypothetical hands and see what the consensus is. In all hands, assume 100bb stacks, your image is TAG, you make a good number of cbets and raise from late position a lot (ie. most of our images after not too long at the table)

Hand 1: Villain is 25/14/2

You're dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Folded to you on the button, you raise to 4bb, SB calls

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Villain checks, you lead for 7 bb, villain raises to 14bb, you?


Hand 2: Villain is 45/10/1

You're dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG calls, You raise to 5bb in the CO, UTG calls

Flop 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villain blah blah blah min check raise, you?


Hand 3: Villain is 14/10/2.5

You're dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

You open raise to 4bb in the CO, SB calls

Flop 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

You guessed it...., you?


Hand 4: Villain is 25/21/6

You're dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

You open raise in CO, B calls

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

meowchowchow, you?

Re: Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

hand 1: fold, a somewhat passive player just check raised us. We don't have odds to call, or even really implied odds here.

Hand 2: blah blah see hand 1. We have more outs now, but they're prob tainted. UTG calling (donk) but then calling a bet OOP signifies a better than crap hand. Coupled with his passiveness, I say we're beat

Hand 3: I still fold, his range is better than mine, but he definetely hasn't hit the 6 or 2 (unless he had 66 or 22)

Hand 4: re-pop? That feels like spew, but I don't like getting pushed around by an aggressive player

Honestly, without any reads or without a good sense of how often they c/r the flop, I usually wouldn't have much of a problem letting any of these hands go.

Crovax

Re: Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

1. I maybe call this, but it's difficult without reads. If I think villian has a set and always gets all vs me on the turn is a 7 falls then this is a call. It's marginal though because your implied odds are about 13 to 1 and your imidiate odds of hitting are 10.5 to 1, so this means he has to stack off virtually every time a 7 falls, and thats not even taking into account redraws if he has a set.

2. You have 2 overs and a bdfd. Against a villian with a high vpip like this this flop could have hit him reasonably hard. The most important factor is that he has an AF of 1, which us fairly passive. Think he has a hand soo strong here that we need running cards to win... not worth it, I fold everytime.

3. Nitty villians pf call from SB indicates a small pocket pair alomst every time. With his AF he is capable of c/r this flop with 77 though, but he could easliy have quads / fh. We have air, so I usually just fold, but if I feel villian tries this alot I may 3 bet to a reasonable amount once in a while, or smooth call and bet turn if checked to.

4. I think this hand is the hardest, he could be raising you with a flush draw give his AF. I doubt he's raising middle pair here mich, despite his AF... and Ace high flop could have hit you hard. I often fold, but I may sometimes call / 3 bet if I think villian pulls this move too often and I think he knows how to fold if you start playing back at him.

Re: Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

I think they are all insta-folds. The only hand I would consider continuing with is 1. I would consider 3betting if villain had figured out we are on ATC here. But that takes a lot of history.

Hand 4, I don´t really see why we are betting this, this guy doesn´t have a call button and we can´t really call a cr.

Re: Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

Imo these are pretty much instafolds.

Hand 4 maybe repop (as has been said) or call (as we assume we are ahead) and see if he fires the turn. If he does, then I fold turn. But without knowing Flop/Turn/River AF I wont be able to make a proper decision.

But even then, I dont have a huge problem folding number 4 either.

Re: Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

Good idea for a thread Wildzer - very common spots that can cost a fortune.

Grunch.

A general comment: At uNL, I am now treating all flop c/r as VALUE lines from average villains. If I have a read (for example if villain has been c/r a lot or is a crazy LAGmonkey/good-aggro TAG) I might adjust/play back. Absent that though, the flop c/r is not someone making a move often enough for me to be willing to spew money on. No, usually, it is someone trying to trap in value. I think this may be true at 100NL too, and possibly even 200NL.


Hand 1: Call only if I somehow know I'll get to see 2 streets for $7. As this isn't really possible to know, fold.

Hand 2: He's pretty passive so it's unlikely he'll c/r flop then chk turn - villain has found a hand he actually wants to bet for once, so he'll probably bet turn too having built a nice pot. Also, we have the Ac. Fold.

Hand 3: This one might well be a TAG not beliveing my cb. But, who cares? Good luck to him, he sniffed out my BS. Big deal. Move on. KJo sucks anyway. Fold.

Hand 4: I see the A. He sees the A. We all see the A. He c/r me anyway. Fold.

Re: Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

1-3 fold

4 call, fold turn

Re: Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
1-3 fold

4 call, fold turn

[/ QUOTE ]

What happens if a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] comes on turn?

C/C to the river?

Re: Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

Hand 1, instacall.
Fold the others

Re: Hand Quiz - The Ol\' C-bet Min-Check/Raise
 

Interesting responses, FWIW, I fold the first two, call the 4th, planning on folding to any more real bets from villain, but I'll often raise the 3rd hand, depending on the villain. If my opponent can read the board texture decently and realize this flop missed anything but an overpair, and in turn, is able to fold a small overpair, I'll raise fairly often here.