NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $12.80
UTG+1: $11.40
MP1: $21.35
MP2: $23.65
MP3: $25.40
Hero: $28
Button: $12.35
SB: $50.90
BB: $21.30

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to $0.5</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($3.1, 6 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $1</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $5</font>, 3 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($15.1, 2 players)
MP1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to $14</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $7 returned to MP1.

Results:
Final pot: $29.1

Is this fold standard?

Re: NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

Yea, you have to fold here.

Re: NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, you have to fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

Eh, when he calls the flop, I check behind the turn and showdown cheaply with this hand.

Also, based on his stats I reraise preflop sometimes. I call also, but mix it up - reads would be good here.

Re: NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

Without reads and past history on the villain, it is tough to put him on a hand. However, I have been calling these raises too much with TPTK and overpairs and have been giving away my profits. I did a thorough search of my PT DB and found that it is a huge leak when calling these raises on the turn. I need to learn some discipline and pot control techniques.

Re: NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

fold
but you either have to check behind on turn or make a stronger bet. i think a bet like that is just asking to get [censored] with.

Re: NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

I check the turn through, call a reasonable river bet.

Once you decide to bet/fold the turn, I prefer a $10 bet. Your bet size looks weak, although at this level I don't expect Villains to pounce on weakness too often.

Easy fold once he raises your $7 bet.

Re: NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

What's your reasoning behind making a stronger bet?

I raised the flop and bet half his stack on the turn, doesn't this look like the classic "I'm trying to get all your money in the middle without you realizing it" play?

Also, when I bet 10$ on the turn instead of 7$ am I folding when he shoves in his last 5$?

I really don't like checking behind on this turn because I have no clue where I'm at if villain donks the river. I also don't want to give QJ and QT a free card and I like having the option of putting villain all in on certain rivers if he check calls the turn.

Can anyone explain why this isn't a bad spot to check behind on the turn?

Re: NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Also, when I bet 10$ on the turn instead of 7$ am I folding when he shoves in his last 5$?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, sorry, I misread stacks sizes.

Re: NL25 FR: Folded TPTK on turn, how\'d I do?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I raised the flop and bet half his stack on the turn, doesn't this look like the classic "I'm trying to get all your money in the middle without you realizing it" play?

[/ QUOTE ]

What did you try to accomplish here? Did you want all his money in the middle? Well then, you accomplished that, don't fold now. Or did you want him to fold by making it look extra scary? I'd believe that's one level too high thinking for the average 25NLer, though you might have had a read on the guy.

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like checking behind on this turn because I have no clue where I'm at if villain donks the river. I also don't want to give QJ and QT a free card and I like having the option of putting villain all in on certain rivers if he check calls the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you bet the turn, you are likely to fold a lot of middle pair or top pair weak kicker hands. These hands might bet the river, though, and you'd welcome that. At the same time, a checkraise on the turn normally means you have to fold, so by betting this turn you risk turning your top pair top kicker into a bluff.

So a pretty popular line is: you flop TPTK, bet the pot on the flop, he calls, thinking you only cbet with air, you check behind on the turn, he bets the river, you call and take the pot. This way, you extracted two streets of value out of a mediocre hand, minimized your checkraise exposure, and in case he really has a big hand, kept your losses small. The only downside is that you have to give a free card, but often that's a good tradeoff here.

Edit: s/check/call/