Taking gambles
 

This was a typical $10 tourney, not much aggression, good implied odds if I hit, etc, so I thought I would see a flop. If I catch a pair I can get away, if I catch 2 pr or better its on, if I catch a draw well see how it goes. Nobody involved in the hand really scared me, seems like typical donks to me, cold calling with anything. Do you agree with the push or just call or fold?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t25/t50
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1635
UTG+1: t3970
Hero: t1665
MP2: t3710
MP3: t1210
CO: t1810
Button: t2515
SB: t1781
BB: t1270

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero calls t50 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t75)</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises to t200</font>, MP3 calls t200 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t325)</font>, CO folds, Button calls t200 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t525)</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t1650</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 calls all-in t1010</font>, Button folds.
Uncalled bets: t440 returned to Hero.

Re: Taking gambles
 

"Nobody involved in the hand really scared me, seems like typical donks to me, cold calling with anything."

So you say that, and push with KT - were you including yourself in that description as a "typical donk"? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] What's the point of having reads, if you don't act on them? Fold preflop.

Re: Taking gambles
 

Why would you ever shove that in the face of three preople who all say they have a good hand?

You have ZERO fold equity and are going to be behind and likely dominated by the one or two that call your bet

Please fold KT preflop unless the table is crazy tight, and then raise, don't limp.

Re: Taking gambles
 

I wouldn't play TT like this, never mind KTo. KK maybe once or twice a month.

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Nobody involved in the hand really scared me, seems like typical donks to me, cold calling with anything.

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Hero calls t50 (pot was t75), MP2 raises to t200, MP3 calls t200 (pot was t325), CO folds, Button calls t200 (pot was t525), 2 folds, Hero raises to t1650

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And you say...

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If I catch a pair I can get away

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As played, that might be a touch difficult, don't ya think?

Interesting location, Ming. Have you trained the skeeters to levitate you on command this year?

Re: Taking gambles
 

Yeah I know I could fold it PF of course but I didn't. The point I was trying to make is that with loose players I like to see more flops to take advantage of them while the blinds are still reasonable. If that makes me a donk I am o.k. with that. Cold calling raises doesn't scream strength to me. It screams I don't have a great hand and I don't really know how to play it until I see a flop. So I disagree with the ZERO fold equity. The only reason I pushed this was because of the huge pot which I thought I could steal some of the time and flip the rest of the time which would be fine with me. The only person I was even remotely worried about was the initial raiser. If he had me dominated, then oh well, I made a mistake. I did put him on a fairly wide range, not maniacal, but he could fold it. I didn't expect the others to call. Which brings me to the main point, is the pot size + fold equity + chance of winning + dead $$ make this worth the gamble here?

Re: Taking gambles
 

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So I disagree with the ZERO fold equity.

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Take a look at MP3's stack.

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The only person I was even remotely worried about was the initial raiser.

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With this being a 4-way pot and two flatcalls of a raise?

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Which brings me to the main point, is the pot size + fold equity + chance of winning + dead $$ make this worth the gamble here?

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Yeah. It's a snapcall for MP3, And Button will be offered slightly more than 2:1 with his holding. Definitely not for Hero.

Looks more like a limp, raise, call, call, hmm, I see a big pot, I shove marginal trash and try to justify it later.

Re: Taking gambles
 

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Interesting location, Ming. Have you trained the skeeters to levitate you on command this year?

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Too thick with blackflies to notice the skeeters so far ... I'm sure once they take over then 3-4 of them could be trained [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Taking gambles
 

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Which brings me to the main point, is the pot size + fold equity + chance of winning + dead $$ make this worth the gamble here?

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No.

Re: Taking gambles
 

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Yeah I know I could fold it PF of course but I didn't. The point I was trying to make is that with loose players I like to see more flops to take advantage of them while the blinds are still reasonable. If that makes me a donk I am o.k. with that. Cold calling raises doesn't scream strength to me. It screams I don't have a great hand and I don't really know how to play it until I see a flop. So I disagree with the ZERO fold equity. The only reason I pushed this was because of the huge pot which I thought I could steal some of the time and flip the rest of the time which would be fine with me. The only person I was even remotely worried about was the initial raiser. If he had me dominated, then oh well, I made a mistake. I did put him on a fairly wide range, not maniacal, but he could fold it. I didn't expect the others to call. Which brings me to the main point, is the pot size + fold equity + chance of winning + dead $$ make this worth the gamble here?

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I see what you are trying to do ... and maybe if it was limped around and you hit a KT7 flop you'd love it ... not sure it's worth the shot here though

K95 gets you in a world of trouble and how do you get away from it?

Re: Taking gambles
 

Yeah you are right. I am not getting away from a pair in this spot if I just call. I was talking about the initial limp, if it does not get raised. And I am not trying to justify it after the fact. I actually thought about all this before I shoved. You did make a good point about MP3's stack and the odds for the button to call though. I probably should have considered that. Maybe this does look too suspiciously like me trying to steal a big pot with a marginal hand. That's why I posted it though. Just wanted to get some opinions.