10-20 at the RIo
 

PF:Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 limps, a raise, sneaky villian calls, I call, button calls, BB calls.

7 to the flop.

Flop:A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
4checks, PFR who, btw, we don't respect his bets/raises, bets, sneaky villain who has been known to bluff calls, I call, btn calls, 3 folds.

4 to the turn.

Turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Checks thru.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
PFR checks, sneaky villain bets, and I....

Re: 10-20 at the RIo
 

why exactly did the turn check through? i'd have bet it and if i didn't i'd feel inclined to pay this off here. raising would be pretty dumb cuz you are almost always beat here and this is really a crying call at best.

Re: 10-20 at the RIo
 

Why didn't you bet the turn? Were you drinking?

Re: 10-20 at the RIo
 

Do you really think I'm actually winning on the turn? What are YOU putting them on at this point? Personally, I'm now completely discounting the PFR (though I guess some weird AA FPS could be going on). The villian though? Is he just peeling with 55? Most importantly, what about the guy behind me? 14 cards saw the flop FOURTEEN (2 of them ours) Are you really ready to believe that none of them are an ace? At this point, at least, I'm pretty sure I need to improve to win the hand and am folding to any bet.

Re: 10-20 at the RIo
 

I don't really understand at all.

PF: I fold.

Flop: I r/c given your read on PF raiser.

Turn: If not reraised on the flop, I bet, intending to check the river through if called. If reraised on the flop, fold unimproved.

As played, you've put yourself in a tough spot. Given your read of the river bettor, I think you probably have to call.

Re: 10-20 at the RIo
 

^sorry, don't want to flame, but I disagree with you

pre flop is never ever a fold for a single raise with at least 4 other players guaranteed to enter the pot, holding Q10s, in position

I don't like a flop raise either, there are six other players in the hand, and if this game anywhere near resembles the game I play in we aint folding out a better Q or a small ace, and even though OP has a read on the PFR, that doesn't mean he can't have a big ace, raising in this spot is spew, we're getting proper odds to draw, a call is the right play

I like how the hand is played, except that I think a turn bet is necessary, bc I think it gives us all the information we need to know if our hand is good, as played, we really don't know where we stand on the river right now

Re: 10-20 at the RIo
 

I fold this pre-flop because I am a nit. If I didnt feel confident enough to bet the turn, I don't feel confident enough to call the river as played.

Re: 10-20 at the RIo
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think I'm actually winning on the turn? What are YOU putting them on at this point? Personally, I'm now completely discounting the PFR (though I guess some weird AA FPS could be going on). The villian though? Is he just peeling with 55? Most importantly, what about the guy behind me? 14 cards saw the flop FOURTEEN (2 of them ours) Are you really ready to believe that none of them are an ace? At this point, at least, I'm pretty sure I need to improve to win the hand and am folding to any bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then why are you asking about the river? A raise makes PFR fold KK if you think you have sneaky beat...I guess.

Re: 10-20 at the RIo
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think I'm actually winning on the turn? What are YOU putting them on at this point? Personally, I'm now completely discounting the PFR (though I guess some weird AA FPS could be going on). The villian though? Is he just peeling with 55? Most importantly, what about the guy behind me? 14 cards saw the flop FOURTEEN (2 of them ours) Are you really ready to believe that none of them are an ace? At this point, at least, I'm pretty sure I need to improve to win the hand and am folding to any bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about your turn and river play together, if you plan on calling a river bet UI then why not bet the turn and take a freebe since 1 bet is going in on the turn/river anyway and if more go in, your hand is toast. I agree w/the rest the posters in that you should bet the turn and hope they were on draws or although unlikely you may be able to fold out a better Q.

You said villain here was sneaky, but can he make a laydown? Is your image good? I think raising the river might be best here b/c KQ, QJ is a pretty decent size of his range and he might lay it down to a river raise. On top of that, you might get one of these guys to lay down a weak ace when you force them to call 2 cold

Re: 10-20 at the RIo
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really understand at all.

PF: I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant to ask him about this myself. How many players must he anticipate in the pot to make cold calling with QT suited profitable? When we see that the flop went with seven players, it probably isn't that bad. But he was not on the button or one of the blinds.