Questions about mid-level games at Borgata
 

Played some last Sunday and yesterday in 10/20 at the Borgata. Last weekend I was up a lot and found the competition pretty weak. This weekend it was a little tougher, at first was seated at a pretty tight-aggressive table which was a must move so I couldn't get a table change for a long time. The second table was fine though, as was the third one I played in after a dinner break.

Anyway, just wondering what the general level of play is here, and in the 20/40 games which I may eventually move up to. The one guy who seemed to be very good (but not perfect and not a pro) at my table last week told me he occasionally plays in the 20/40 games and didn't think they were much different than the 10/20. However, I have read here about at least some pros being in the 20/40, and have heard rumors about some collusion going on there. So just generaly curious about the 20/40 tables, as well as general impressions of the 10/20 - are there any pros in these games?

Rob

Re: Questions about mid-level games at Borgata
 

Yes, the 20/40 games have many pros. They also have many 2+2ers who may have day jobs, but play at a pro level. However, there are also many weak and inexperienced players who have a lot of money, especially on the weekends. The trade off of going up against the pros is worth it, if you can select the tables with the poorest quality players.

20/40 is a much tougher level than the 10/20. There is usually at least one raise pre-flop in the 20/40 as compared to the not raised preflop play with four callers in the 10/20. Most hands are contested heads up or three way max in the 20/40, versus the free for all at the 10/20 game. Also there is much more semi-bluffing on the flop and the turn.

I don't know about any collusion, I haven't seen any and I put in over 100 hours at 20/40. I know I have sniffed some out in the Taj and reported it, and they got right on top of those players. I know if I detected collusion at the Borgata I would report it. I would also believe a lot of the pros would detect it and report it as well. The pros don't depend upon collusion, and it would only hurt their livelihood.

Re: Questions about mid-level games at Borgata
 

Thanks for the info - think I will stick with the 10/20 games for now anyway. I am was certainly not trying to start another collusion thread; someone I sat with at the 10/20 said he thought there was some "team play" that went on there, but he said specifically he thought it was in the daytime weekdays, when I wouldn't be as likely to play anyway. I also heard someone else mentioned the table with two 4 of clubs in the deck, which I read about in this forum last night as well. That does sound unlikely to be cheating though - I think I would be more worried if an extra ace was found although I guess any particular card could be useful in the right situation. Since you sound experienced in the AC games - are there any limit games at the Taj (or elsewhere in AC, though I can't imagine where) which are bigger than 10/20 but not as tough as the Borgata 20/40?

Rob

Re: Questions about mid-level games at Borgata
 

You must play in totally different games than the ones that I see there. The weekend 20-40 games are usually very loose, though I haven't played that low in a while now.

Re: Questions about mid-level games at Borgata
 

The 20-40 games at the borgata are still loose. I've put in many hours and have never seen any team play weekday or weekend.

Re: Questions about mid-level games at Borgata
 

[ QUOTE ]
You must play in totally different games than the ones that I see there. The weekend 20-40 games are usually very loose, though I haven't played that low in a while now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you, the 20/40 is very loose on the weekends, which is the only time I play there.

However, on occassion I have ran into tables that are very tough. It comes down to game selection. Through the short time I have played in that game, I came to identify the quality of maybe the thirty or forty players that are somewhat regular, who show up on Saturday when I do.

Re: Questions about mid-level games at Borgata
 

I was at 20/40 in the must-move for most of Sunday. The one with the kid who spilled coffee all over the place.

The game was overall, pretty loose and very easy. One or two tight-passive local "pros" and four or five loose "Play any Ace" players. I was not afraid to get into a confrontation with anyone at the table. No one pays attention to how anyone else plays: I raised with KK UTG after folding two orbits of deuces and treys, and I got 5 callers [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Overall, a great, but very typical game.

My favorite hand of the evening: guy check-raises my set on the flop, then we go 4 bets on the turn, and the guy check-folding the river showing K high (no SD/FD). This was happening all night.

Unfortunately, the must-move 40/80 was shorthanded for most of the afternoon. There was one player who I was eager to play with, but there were 2 other very aggressive players who I did not want to tangle with. The 80/160 was running Saturday night, but I was still playing the 11AM $340 tournament. I was too exhausted to even check up on it before I left.

Re: Questions about mid-level games at Borgata
 

An extra 4c certainly is cheating. Looks like somebody was mucking an extra card in and out. They were holding the extra card that the 4c replaced waiting for the right situation to muck that card in and pull another card out. The shufflers count the number of cards, requiring you to pull out a card when you switch one in. The 4c, innocuous as it appears, was just the first card in the mucking sequence. If the cheat got noticed with the 4c before the mucking started, nobody would think much of it. Also less likely to be noticed as an extra card than a king or other high card would be.