marginal hand
 

villain is 37/13/1.9

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 8.5BB

Re: marginal hand
 

I usually check this flop and see what happens. If it looks like I'll be able to knock people out when it comes back to me, I c/r. If I get 3-bet, I just give up. If it checks through, I lead a 2-T. If BB/UTG leads out and gets a bunch of callers, I'd just call. Maybe donk a good turn if I'm confident I can fold to a raise.

Re: marginal hand
 

I think you could fold the turn if he's not to tricky. You betting into 4 opponents one the flop and that shows strenght. Moste people don't raise here with hands that u have beat

Re: marginal hand
 

I don't lead this into a pot w/ this many players.

as played, even if we are rarely ahead here we are incredibly vulnerable to any straight draw...

I think leading was a mistake, and I think as played we should muck them here on the flop and cut our losses and not bet out next time.

Re: marginal hand
 

"I think as played we should muck them here on the flop and cut our losses"

definitely. i think calling this flop is actually a big mistake.

Re: marginal hand
 

button never has QJ, Q9, T8, or 22-99 here miles?

Re: marginal hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
button never has QJ, Q9, T8, or 22-99 here miles?

[/ QUOTE ]

RIO is the problem with calling the flop raise, not that we're always behind.

Re: marginal hand
 

this is interesting.

lets see..

If we're behind we're deadish.
If we're ahead he's in about the same amount of trouble (unless he specifically has QJ or some other combination of overs and a backdoor).

our position is crappy as far a collecting bets when ahead unless he's already made his hand. our position is crappy as far as avoiding bets when behind.

with that said, a calldown will cost anouther 5sb in a 7sb pot, with the distinct possibility of missing a bet when we're in the lead.

This means that we have to be ahead here just about 50% of the time to make the flop call. yeah, that's pretty iffy.

We hate turn checkthroughs, we hate any other overs falling, we have to hope he has a hand when we improve later on, but the flop call would be predicated on him not having a hand half of the time.

yeah, looks like a fold is the right move on the flop given that.

I agree with leader's earlier comment though, check and see what the hell happens in a multiway pot like that.

I guess the main reason my instinct was to call the flop raise would be because my other instinct would be to raise some of the hands that hero beats from villain's spot.

Re: marginal hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I think as played we should muck them here on the flop and cut our losses"

definitely. i think calling this flop is actually a big mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? Disagree a lot. First I think you have to significantly fade the likelyhood of a K when he raises the flop HU after 3 folds. We also have lots of chopping outs if outkicked.

Re: marginal hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"I think as played we should muck them here on the flop and cut our losses"

definitely. i think calling this flop is actually a big mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]


WTF? Disagree a lot. First I think you have to significantly fade the likelyhood of a K when he raises the flop HU after 3 folds. We also have lots of chopping outs if outkicked.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think hero leading into a 5-way pot on this board shows a lot of strength. what does hero lead into the multiway pot with that villain raises lightly?

getting 8 to 1 to a chopped pot w/ an optimistic 4 outs does not justify a call IMHO.