50NL, JJ has overpair in 4-way pot, flop is paired
 

I don't know where to cut off the action, so I'll just post the whole hand and maybe you can see where I went wrong.


Villains' stats (all over 46 hands):
SB: 40/4/1.2 (I've seen him slowplay AA all the way to the turn)
BB: 47/12/0.93
UTG: 78/8/1.3

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $38.85
BB: $22.35
UTG: $152.05
<font color="black">Hero (MP): $50.45</font>
CO: $63.40
BTN: $16.75

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50, UTG calls $1.50

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($8) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $2</font>, BB calls $2, UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($16) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $3.50</font>, BB calls $3.50, UTG calls $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

<font color="black">River:</font> ($30) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $5</font>, Hero folds

Re: 50NL, JJ has overpair in 4-way pot, flop is paired
 

b u m p

Re: 50NL, JJ has overpair in 4-way pot, flop is paired
 

[ QUOTE ]

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($8) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $2</font>, BB calls $2, UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($16) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $3.50</font>, BB calls $3.50, UTG calls $3.50, Hero calls $3.50


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you just calling down because you fear they have AA/KK/random 5?

Raising the flop would give you the information about whether another player holds the range you're playing so passively against. AS played you were playing for showdown value alone, but you were vulnerable to any overcard considering how loose and passive the other players were. Raising would have limited the overcard range and allow you to either extract value while ahead or get away sooner if you were behind vs calling down two more streets and folding to a scare card.

Re: 50NL, JJ has overpair in 4-way pot, flop is paired
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know where to cut off the action, so I'll just post the whole hand and maybe you can see where I went wrong.

Villains' stats (all over 46 hands):
SB: 40/4/1.2 (I've seen him slowplay AA all the way to the turn)
BB: 47/12/0.93
UTG: 78/8/1.3

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $38.85
BB: $22.35
UTG: $152.05
<font color="black">Hero (MP): $50.45</font>
CO: $63.40
BTN: $16.75

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50, UTG calls $1.50

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($8) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $2</font>, BB calls $2, UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($16) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $3.50</font>, BB calls $3.50, UTG calls $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

<font color="black">River:</font> ($30) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $5</font>, Hero folds

[/ QUOTE ]

I woulda reraised the flop to like 10. You don't want someone with overs getting the proper odds to draw out on you (which is very likely given 4 seeing the flop). THe pot is big enough that I'm happy taking it now w/ J's.

If you're reraised I'd probably pitch it thinking they had trips. If you're called then I'd go for pot control. Check down and call smallish bets.

Re: 50NL, JJ has overpair in 4-way pot, flop is paired
 

why would you not raise on the flop or turn???? im so confused...you carpal tunnels are too good for me

Re: 50NL, JJ has overpair in 4-way pot, flop is paired
 

I think you have to jack the flop up pot sized, 20 or so. Those bets are weak and a fairly big pot may be yours for the taking...can't let those overcards price themselves in. I don't think a 9 goes over the top on you so I feel safe from being bluffed off my hand if best.

I played a hand similarly 2 weeks ago, at the bottom of my downswing. I was playing wounded and scared and regretted that hand more than any other and almost posted it in cheese as the worst hand I ever played. Similarly a q showed up on the river and there it went.

Not like it's a big deal. but was there a reason for the 3x+1 bb raise preflop?

Re: 50NL, JJ has overpair in 4-way pot, flop is paired
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not like it's a big deal. but was there a reason for the 3x+1 bb raise preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

As opposed to a slightly larger raise? $2 at these tables seems to get the pot heads up for the most part, and it's been my experience that people fold to larger raises.

Re: 50NL, JJ has overpair in 4-way pot, flop is paired
 

[ QUOTE ]

Are you just calling down because you fear they have AA/KK/random 5?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I was calling down for fearing of bloating the pot and ending up stacking off without a good reason for it, or folding the best hand in a big pot. Thinking about it now, it would be much better to raise to protect what may very well be the best hand. On this kind of board, further action strongly suggests that I'm beat, so I have no problems folding to a re-raise.

Re: 50NL, JJ has overpair in 4-way pot, flop is paired
 

If we do not raise the flop, surely it is because we believe someone has a better hand. Is that what we believe?

Do we care about folding 22-88 and just winning it now?

Does it worry us that we are offering &gt;5/1 to 2 villains to continue with AQ+?

I think my answers are no, no and yes. So I raise flop and take it from there. If called, I control pot unless either I become sure that I can get value from 22-88, or I become sure someone had caught something that will break my heart.