Standard line, no?
 

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (4.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

oh villain is 20/7/1.1

Re: Standard line, no?
 

argh see the showdown

Re: Standard line, no?
 

Preflop is fine.
I tend to C/R the flop to see where I'm at
If 3-bet flop I tend to C/C till showdown
Turn follow through bet after C/R, and B/F river.

Re: Standard line, no?
 

I usually fold this preflop &amp; don't feel too bad about it. Though of course if you're going to play it you need to be raising.

It's tough to put villain on a hand here (QQ seems like a candidate), but based on his numbers I really doubt he's raising the river without a hand that can beat TPNK. So yeah, I like the bet/fold there.

Re: Standard line, no?
 

I have to raise this preflop. They are all so tight that one of my edges is stealing. How do you beat a 9% vpip? For one by hammering his weak spot, the blinds. I raise much worse hands in these games from the CO, K9s is even a legitimate raise...I'll raise J8o... if the BB has a fold% over 90, which is not uncommon, I'll even raise 54 and such.

So one of these guys who normally always folds now 3 bets. This means he has a hand. Probably TT+ AJ+. So I figured to be wa/wb, planning to check/call and bet the river. If I c/r the flop I'm only going to lose more when behind. If I c/r and he 3 bets I peel and fold the turn UI. (against this tight passive player)

Also, whenever these guys have a real hand they try to c/r the turn. So there was still a good possibility he had AK or something. So I fold to the raise, he shows QQ, and I tell him no surprise, after which he doesn't believe I had a king [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Standard line, no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I raise much worse hands in these games from the CO, K9s is even a legitimate raise

[/ QUOTE ]

The problems here are twofold:

1) You're in the Hijack, not the CO. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
2) You're raising with a hand that's very likely to be dominated when you're 3bet or coldcalled by a nit.

I can totally dig getting a little crazy against weak tighties with something like J8o or 54s, because when you do get played back at you very likely have two live cards (and he's very likely paying off when you hit). But K9s is just asking for situations like this, where you win the minimum when you're good &amp; lose the max when you're not.

Re: Standard line, no?
 

1) uhh... yah [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] It's early. :P
2) very true, altough the raise is often an automatic profit, regardless what happens next.

Re: Standard line, no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) You're in the Hijack, not the CO.
2) You're raising with a hand that's very likely to be dominated when you're 3bet or coldcalled by a nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's more of a matter of preference and establishing a cutoff point than for the reasons you've listed. KTs doesn't suffer far less in comparison to K9s from the two problems you've listed, though I assume you would raise it here. It can be said that raising K4s is clearly wrong, and KJs is clearly right, but a hand like K9s falls in a grayer area. Fwiw, I raise it here as well.

Re: Standard line, no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I tend to C/R the flop to see where I'm at
If 3-bet flop I tend to C/C till showdown

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats the point in finding out where you are if you are going to call down to the 3-bet? You might as well just go WA/WB from the flop.

Re: Standard line, no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to C/R the flop to see where I'm at
If 3-bet flop I tend to C/C till showdown

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats the point in finding out where you are if you are going to call down to the 3-bet? You might as well just go WA/WB from the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly my point.