25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

Basic checkup my fullring game is a little rusty. CO is arguably one of the best fullring players in the world. BB is unknown presumably donkish, bought in for his full roll.

Two questions, c/c c/f or bet river? If you bet how much?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Hero ($5000)</font>
MP1 ($1088)
MP2 ($1050)
CO ($6659)
Button ($7889)
SB ($950)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($1951.25)</font>
UTG ($1697)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $50, Hero calls $50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls $50, CO calls $50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($300) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $250</font>, MP2 folds, CO calls $250, SB folds, BB calls $250, UTG folds.

Turn: ($1050) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

River: ($1050) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets?

Re: 25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

500 fold to a raise

Re: 25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

If CO is really good it means he's going to value bet super light. He'll definitely VB lighter when checked to then how light he'll call with. I'm trying to think of worse hands that call, but can't come up with many. I'm going with c/c. Strassa also made a very good post about this recently.

Re: 25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

If BB goes to showdown a lot, by checking you have a chance at a sort of reverse overcall. Just a thought.

Re: 25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

I would usually check

Re: 25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

I also have a feeling that the great player in the CO is roman/empire2000. Strassa's quote.

[ QUOTE ]
Great hand.

River is interesting (up until then it seems v standard). Roman is a very good player and I really like his game. If you check here, he will value bet pretty thin. Im not sure if he bets like QQ or something on the river, but he might? More importantly, he will bluff a shitton on this river when checked to.

Depending on the flow, I probably really dislike your river bet. Roman can A) Move in as a bluff, B) rarely call with worse. Plus if you check he will A) value bet an ace that he might fold with to your bet, B) Bluff, C) rarely call with worse.

Because good players have no fear value betting, I feel like you really dont lose that much value by checking is the bottom line because they will put in the money for you, and you avoid the trouble that is presented to you here. I hate when people take lines that avoid tough spots, but honestly here is a spot versus a good player that I might lean towards a more conservative line.

As played, I honestly have no idea what to do, I think I expect roman to bet on this turn with a flush most of the time. But its a chicken and egg type thing because he knows you will know that so he takes that into account but you also know that blah blah blah.

I find this spot really hard to bluff in though, but Roman is a very strong player and I dont put it past him.

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

Check-call a reasonable bet I would think, but I am light years from those levels.

Please post more often though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: 25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check-call a reasonable bet I would think, but I am light years from those levels.

Please post more often though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

Re: 25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

I'm a wuss and probably check/call here. The flush draw got there on the turn, the double gutter got there on the river, if you bet I don't see a very good player paying off with one pair here very often. If he was just floating the flop, maybe he'll take a shot at it now.

I really like the idea of setting up the overcall by potentially trapping BB with a weaker hand. It's hard to have a solid opinion though without having played at the particular level.

Re: 25/50 Full Ring unraised pot bottom set
 

[ QUOTE ]
I also have a feeling that the great player in the CO is roman/empire2000. Strassa's quote.

[ QUOTE ]
Great hand.

River is interesting (up until then it seems v standard). Roman is a very good player and I really like his game. If you check here, he will value bet pretty thin. Im not sure if he bets like QQ or something on the river, but he might? More importantly, he will bluff a shitton on this river when checked to.

Depending on the flow, I probably really dislike your river bet. Roman can A) Move in as a bluff, B) rarely call with worse. Plus if you check he will A) value bet an ace that he might fold with to your bet, B) Bluff, C) rarely call with worse.

Because good players have no fear value betting, I feel like you really dont lose that much value by checking is the bottom line because they will put in the money for you, and you avoid the trouble that is presented to you here. I hate when people take lines that avoid tough spots, but honestly here is a spot versus a good player that I might lean towards a more conservative line.

As played, I honestly have no idea what to do, I think I expect roman to bet on this turn with a flush most of the time. But its a chicken and egg type thing because he knows you will know that so he takes that into account but you also know that blah blah blah.

I find this spot really hard to bluff in though, but Roman is a very strong player and I dont put it past him.

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

where is this quote from?

fwiw i think checking gets more value from more hands here.