Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

6-max

Two folds and a guy limps. This guy's like 70/30/bluffspew. He's very very bad.

I'm on the button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I call. I'd like to play hands with him if possible. This might not be a good hand to start with, but I figure it's probably worth it. If you have some comments as to the minimum type of hands that you'd like to have to play here, please feel free to share.

The small blind calls and the BB checks. SB is a tag and BB is a loose passive caller. So I guess that's another reason to play the hand (BB).

Flop (4sb): K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB calls, CO calls, hero?

So, like, now that I'm here, what's my plan for the rest of the hand?

I think I want to see a showdown, so I think raising the flop and betting the turn, checking the river is the way to do it, even though the flop raise is -EV due to the ranges against me (it should make turn/river easier though, and let me know if I'm behind I hope).

Re: Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

I dont think thats even a call getting 1:7 after the tag bets and the other guys call. You are not ahead too often and if you are, you get outdrawn more often than not.

Re: Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

I fold preflop. I would look to play hands against him as well, but I would rather play hands I can raise and try to isolate him.

As played I peel the flop. But its close to a fold. Raising is silly IMO, unless you are going for a free card. I dont think you have enough eq to raise for value.

Re: Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

I would fold preflop. If you decided to play I would raise preflop. If you got this HU agains the bad player this is the flop your looking for. As played I would peel flop. Depending on action I would probably fold IU on the turn.

Re: Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

whatever on preflop. sometimes I raise but then I saw your description of bb. if it was suited I would 100% raise.

I'd call now and see what the turn brings. If it's a diamond or the action heats up you can get out cheap. best case is the turn bricks off and checks to cuckoo and then you raise him. tag could easily have a draw. the limper certainly doesn't have a king. I really dont like a fold here.

Re: Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

Fold preflop.

Flop is close to a call, but i fold. Because of reverse implied odds.

There will come better spots to play against the donk.

I would isolate him with hands with showdown value.

Re: Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

I fold or raise PF. (strongly leaning towards fold) It seems OP just wants to play against, rather than isolate the mega donk, but I don't like 78o as a hand to isolate with.
As played, now you have 4 players in the pot, and a medium pair with a TAG leading out? I might make a marginal call on the flop getting 7-1 and folding UI on turn. A fold on the flop isn't terrible as I don't think you can optimistically say that all 3 of your 8's are clean outs.

Re: Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

I like the preflop limp. SB and BB are unlikely to raise, and you are getting great implied odds with the BB and maniac in the hand with you. Also you have great position. I don't like a raise much, because I don't want to play 87o HU against a guy who likes to bluff and spew. Just limp in take advantage of seeing the flop cheaply and using your position. I don't think you should raise your weak drawing type hands against these players in this position.

I think you should just peel the flop. Your equity is never very good here, and you aren't going to fold any draws by raising. By calling the flop, you can get away cheaply on the turn when behind, or use your position to get value or protect if you improve. Also if your opponents are observant, you will not be representing a K or set here, assuming you would raise any K or pocket 7's or 5's preflop.

Re: Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

Are you seriously advocating a limp and playing 87o against 4 players and possibly facing a raise from SB/BB? lol

Mozart nailed this perfectly.

Re: Hmm, let\'s call this a marginal 87o hand
 

you guys have preflop charts burned into your brains or something

i'd wager I make more with 87o in this spot than with KTo folded to me on the button against two expert players in the blinds. but I raise that and no one says a damn thing.