Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

Ellis Burks is at seat 0 with $7882.
Liddl is at seat 2 with $7092.
YelloSub86 is at seat 3 with $18281.
Bella Di Gio is at seat 4 with $3197.
The button is at seat 2.

YelloSub86 posts the small blind of $25.
Bella Di Gio posts the big blind of $50.

Ellis Burks: -- -- -- --
Liddl: -- -- -- --
YelloSub86: As Kh Ad Qc
Bella Di Gio: -- -- -- --

Pre-flop:

Ellis Burks raises to $125. Liddl calls. YelloSub86
re-raises to $550. Bella Di Gio folds. Ellis Burks
calls. Liddl calls.

Flop (board: Ts 7c Jh):

YelloSub86: ?

Re: Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

[ QUOTE ]

Flop (board: Ts 7c Jh):

YelloSub86: ?

[/ QUOTE ]

You gotta water that pot, so $500-$800.

The sad thing is that because you are OOP you probably won't make as much off this hand as might otherwise and you'll probably lose more if you whiff. This nice hand is like getting the gift of your favorite bottle of wine but not having a corkscrew opener.

Re: Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

Wow i like the post. Interesting hand, but this is mostly player dependent. So, without any reads my standard default play is check because if you bet out villian is going to pot this many many times and then what is your play? I would rather keep this pot small so I can see the turn cheaply cause you are not folding. Unfortunately your implied odds are not very good, but with your hand you do not need much to continue. You may be giving a free card, but chances are you are probably behind or maybe slighty ahead and giving a free card is not always bad if you are the one who catches because players will often think you are on AA and no draw so if you do hit the turn you may be on to something. Most of this depends how the player as been playing overall.

Re: Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

My default play here will be to bet out 3/4 to pot 30% and check with intention of c/r pot 60% of time.

Faaaaairly happy to get money in on this hand regardless of what your action is OOP i.e. whether you bet out or c/r.

Re: Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

I'm just going to go over my thought process here, I know most of it is pretty basic:

You have 12 nut outs if you're behind, and you might well not be. If you could just get it all in right here you would. Which would lead one at first instinct to just bet hoping to be raised, as one of your opponents should have some of this. And of course if they just fold that's fine too.

The problem comes if you just get called. I think they talk about this in the Ciaffone/Reuben book. Being out of position with a pot sized bet left, if you don't hit on the turn you suddenly hate your life. Because now you have much less equity (most likely), no implied odds, and not big enough actual odds vs. most of the hands that will give you action. And if you don't get to see both cards your flop equity was an illusion of course.

I think this leads me to check the flop, looking to raise and get it all in. It's pretty unlikely in this situation that it will get checked around, and even if it does you may not be that unhappy about it. I think mixing betting and checking would be fine too, but I feel a lot more confident that someone will bet if I check than that someone will raise if I bet. Player reads could change this.

Worth noting that because of the preflop action this hand doesn't actually play THAT "deep". Just 2 PSB left, if that.

Re: Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just going to go over my thought process here, I know most of it is pretty basic:

You have 12 nut outs if you're behind, and you might well not be. If you could just get it all in right here you would. Which would lead one at first instinct to just bet hoping to be raised, as one of your opponents should have some of this. And of course if they just fold that's fine too.

The problem comes if you just get called. I think they talk about this in the Ciaffone/Reuben book. Being out of position with a pot sized bet left, if you don't hit on the turn you suddenly hate your life. Because now you have much less equity (most likely), no implied odds, and not big enough actual odds vs. most of the hands that will give you action. And if you don't get to see both cards your flop equity was an illusion of course.

I think this leads me to check the flop, looking to raise and get it all in. It's pretty unlikely in this situation that it will get checked around, and even if it does you may not be that unhappy about it. I think mixing betting and checking would be fine too, but I feel a lot more confident that someone will bet if I check than that someone will raise if I bet. Player reads could change this.

Worth noting that because of the preflop action this hand doesn't actually play THAT "deep". Just 2 PSB left, if that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like your thinking here Bart, especially regarding the "being called" on the flop point. It really will get seriously ugly if you don't hit turn when called flop.

I suppose if you check flop you (1) have the opportunity to get a free card yourself if he checks behind and (2) have the opportunity to go to the felt (or get him to fold) if he bets out and you c/r.

Yes, definitely like a check here OOP. Nice post Bart.

Re: Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

def CR here. pot will be stabbed at like 95% of the time by one of them regardless of their holdings.

Re: Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just going to go over my thought process here, I know most of it is pretty basic:

You have 12 nut outs if you're behind, and you might well not be. If you could just get it all in right here you would. Which would lead one at first instinct to just bet hoping to be raised, as one of your opponents should have some of this. And of course if they just fold that's fine too.

The problem comes if you just get called. I think they talk about this in the Ciaffone/Reuben book. Being out of position with a pot sized bet left, if you don't hit on the turn you suddenly hate your life. Because now you have much less equity (most likely), no implied odds, and not big enough actual odds vs. most of the hands that will give you action. And if you don't get to see both cards your flop equity was an illusion of course.

I think this leads me to check the flop, looking to raise and get it all in. It's pretty unlikely in this situation that it will get checked around, and even if it does you may not be that unhappy about it. I think mixing betting and checking would be fine too, but I feel a lot more confident that someone will bet if I check than that someone will raise if I bet. Player reads could change this.

Worth noting that because of the preflop action this hand doesn't actually play THAT "deep". Just 2 PSB left, if that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am very inclined to agree here. the only thing we're behind and might fold out if T7xx... it's unlikely a JT will fold here.

As an alternative I sometimes will do a sucker 50~200 dollar sucker (where I look like the sucker) bet. This forces the villains to show their hands, and opens some options for the turn, even OOP.

Re: Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

Flop (board: Ts 7c Jh):

YelloSub86 checks. Ellis Burks bets $1300. Liddl
calls. YelloSub86 ?

now what? concensus is to crai, event tho is fairly likely we're up against 98?

Re: Neat flop spot kinda deep 5k PLO
 

Well being up against 98 doesn't really change anything except for the 1 out. Pretty much any hand that gets in with you on the flop is going to be beating your AKQ draw at the moment, so the 98 straight is no different. The smooth caller however does change things, as between the bettor and caller they're likely to have at least two of your outs tied up.

Still, I like the pressure play here - especially because you have counterfeit protection if you hit your hand on the turn.