FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

10/20 at the Bellagio.
We're playing 9 handed.
Main Villain has 4Kish, I cover.

He has been playing passively and tightish postflop. I've won a couple of biggish pots against him in the last hr. He isn't visibly tilted but its probably irritating him.

I raise UTG+1 to 80 with Tc9c. 4 people call.

Flop 8c 8d 4c Pot (430)

I check? Villain bets 240 directly behind me. Everyone folds to me.
I call?

Turn 5c Pot (900)

I check? He bets 500, with 1 chip. This is a big bet for him. I call?

River 9d (1900)

I check?

Re: FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

I'd rather bet/fold than check-call here personally. He is tight and passive so you can bet like $800 on the river and fold to a raise.

Also I like betting the flop.

Re: FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

Flop seems really dirty. Your draw is super obvious, and it you'll be on the bad end of flush over flush way more than the good end, not to mention drawing dead (obviously not a big concern), or him boating up when you hit (big concern). If I checked it, it would be to c/r (not likely) or c/f.

His smallish bet is pretty tempting, but unless you're willing to try to take the pot away here on a blank turn sometimes (not a great spot, IMO), or think he'll spew chips like crazy when you hit, with a bare 8 (doesn't sound like the type), just let it go.

Turn: See, this is why the flop call sucks. You hit your draw, and you basically have to play bluff catcher, or hope he keeps betting an 8. If you raise, he'll probably put you on a flush. If you call, an 8 starts to feel like a thin value bet, if he doesn't have a good kicker, and a flush (or better, obv) still has a super easy bet. Our hand looks like an overpair, too, so we're vulnerable to getting bluffed if a club hits, as well (although maybe not with this guy).

If you've been bullying him, I kinda like a lead better, since I think he checks back an 8, a lot, but will definitely call down. But he has to think you're kinda crazy for that to work. Problem, of course, is that you are trying to rep a wacky OOP float, after a fairly strong flop bet.

River: The more likely you think he is to check it back with an 8, but call a bet with it, the more you should want to bet/fold.

I think you can safely fold to a raise here, so that's nice too.

I'd fire $1K, if I bet it.

If I checked here, it would be with the plan of calling a small bet, and folding to a big one.

Re: FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

I limp or fold PF, but w/e. Jim pretty much covered postflop. I think a valuebet is better on the river against this type. His type is thinking, big pot with good but not great hand, easy check with an 8 or AA etc. I like 800 or 1200, depending on feel of how much he is going to call.

Re: FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

I think the question on the river bet is whether or not I'm ahead here enough to value bet the river.

Re: FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the question on the river bet is whether or not I'm ahead here enough to value bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
In spots like this, I really hope I have a live read.

Re: FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

Agreed.

Although I found a SICK full ring game today and turned 200 into 900.

Think you played hand all right, he could have a wide range of hands and you're getting close to 3 to 1 on flop with a flush. I probably raise turn.

Re: FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the question on the river bet is whether or not I'm ahead here enough to value bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
In spots like this, I really hope I have a live read.

[/ QUOTE ]

My live read was strength but trying to guess what an average tightish passive donk thinks is a big hand is really tough. I put him on QQ+.

Re: FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed.

Although I found a SICK full ring game today and turned 200 into 900.

Think you played hand all right, he could have a wide range of hands and you're getting close to 3 to 1 on flop with a flush. I probably raise turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for your advice Johny. I'll be sure to look for a good game where I can buy in for 200 and quadruple it.

Re: FULL RING IS FOR LITTLE GIRLS
 

i agree w/ jim. this isn't a super strong or disguised draw, it's a ten high flush draw on a paired board. i wouldn't worry about getting blown off my hand if i bet and get raised. given you c/c flop and turn i would go ahead and check the river too. your hand is way stronger than he probably thinks it is(imo) and you probably won't know how to react vs. a raise from this particular player with the recent history.