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-   -   Top set, nut flush draw and I dont like putting money in (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=330434)

I dunno 02-12-2007 10:19 PM

Top set, nut flush draw and I dont like putting money in
 
One early and one late limper, SB folds and I check with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the BB. Assume effective stacks are 100bbs.

Board is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I have a brain fart and lead the pot, EP re-raises pot, LP re-raises all-in. EP will call with his low draw and 2 random cards. He could also have some random straight draw junk.

LP will have more solid values like a wrap, open-end straight draw, two pair, etc. The naked low + bad flush draw is certainly in his range, becuase I think he is trying to iso against the early limper. Call here?

If you are going to be heads up against LP do you call?

Habib Marwan 02-12-2007 10:30 PM

Re: Top set, nut flush draw and I dont like putting money in
 
call, it should be a fun sweat

wackjob 02-12-2007 11:59 PM

Re: Top set, nut flush draw and I dont like putting money in
 
i couldn't imagine folding, but I wouldn't want to put any more in on this flop than I had to after that crazy action.

snelgrave 02-13-2007 11:30 AM

Re: Top set, nut flush draw and I dont like putting money in
 
Is leading the flop a mistake because you're trying to maintain pot control when only playing for half? I mostly play limit.

bbartlog 02-13-2007 12:08 PM

Re: Top set, nut flush draw and I dont like putting money in
 
Leading the flop is a mistake because the most likely outcome is that you get HU with a hand that's freerolling you for the high. Small chance that both opponents fold and also a small chance that both would come along for the ride.

When I first saw this I thought that surely with two other players putting in money a strong high hand like this would want to increase the pot size, but as it turns out (running a couple of scenarios) the likely pot equities are mostly around 33% (mostly 30-36%), so it looks pretty neutral from an EV perspective whether you want to put more money in or not. However, there is something to be said (from a playability perspective) for getting all your money in on the flop; it makes it impossible for opponents to pressure you into an incorrect fold if a 2/6/7 comes on a later street.

Anyway, back to OP's question(s). It sounds like you are playing no-limit based on your description of stack sizes and the fact that LP was able to reraise all-in (in pot limit we wouldn't yet be to that point based on the betting). If you know that EP will call, then I think you call here, as your pot equity is probably about 1/3 versus two other players.
If you know that EP will fold (and knowing that LP is reasonably solid), you are probably about a 60/40 dog pot-equitywise versus villain's range. This means that the decision to call is going to be based on how much dead money there is in the pot (we would want to know the size of your raise and EP's reraise), but it looks like a fold unless EP has juiced the pot with about 40BB of dead money.

I dunno 02-13-2007 03:01 PM

Re: Top set, nut flush draw and I dont like putting money in
 
It was PL, maybe the stacks were all a little less than 100bbs, but I remember that LP was effectively all-in. Maybe he had like 10bbs left and I pushed, I don't remember.

And yes leading the pot first to act was a bad idea, as I said in my OP. Damn split pot games


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