Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

This one could be standard but has a few interesting things. I just met Tony for the first time so he knows who I am. BK just sat to my left to isolate the fish (me). Immediately thereafter, Jayrockets sits to BK's left to isolate the fish (BK). We play a few hands when Tony sees the game and decides it is just too good to pass up and plans to stay there to eat dinner while waiting for a bigger game. he sits to my right. I game select good.

Very fist hand, Tony posts in the CO. Folded to a loose bad player who I thought raised but really just limped. Tony says "raise" but has no chips so I think it is 3 bet. I take it to 4 bets with TT but then suffer the humiliation of having to pull back 4 chips since I can only 3 bet. Anyway, bad player calls and Tony caps. 3 to the flop.

KQx rainbow. I dont recall the suits or the x but it doesn't matter.

Tony bets, I call, fish folds.

Turn J (KQx)

Tony checks. Action?

If I bet and get checkraised can I fold the river UI?

If I check and he checks the river, are we going to valuetown?

If I check and he bets the river are we calling?

If he checks and I bet the river and he checkraises are we calling?

Re: Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

Very interesting hand to me as this seems to come up often in my game. I check the turn for the free card and probably end up calling or checking behind the river unimproved.

This is a hand I play passively because I have outs to a big and and some showdown value.

Re: Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

I agree, you want to showdown this hand cheaply after flop. Tough to think youre going to get any more value from a worse hand

Re: Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

Check the turn. If he bets the river and you're UI take a quarter out of your pocket, flip it, and ask him to call it in the air. Decide what that means beforehand. He's playing smaller than his normal games and is there to have fun and he knows that you want to showdown your hand so he shouldn't bluff, but he knows that you know that so he will bluff...and...

You see where I'm going. He plays good. Unless he's there to play bad, in which case I'd call if the coin comes up heads and I wouldn't fold if the coin comes up tails.

Rob

Re: Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

This feels a lot like AJs or another TT, something on that order. It could also be say 88 that figures the J filled in all your draws and is just ready to give it up. I think he probably gives you credit for a somewhat stronger hand than you actually have because that's a little bit of a loose peel with TT with a player still to act behind you.

Anyway, I'd bet as sort of a valuebluff and fire again on the river, expecting to get called down by something like AQ a lot but occasionally folding the AJs/TT type hand with the second barrel. There really aren't too many hands that should be check-raising here except perhaps the nut straight, since even KK minds getting free carded with the straight draw on the board. And I suspect that people are a little less likely to check-raise bluff when they don't have their chips in front of them. So I think this is a defensive check and I'd see if I couldn't exploit that. Plus, even if he does have say 88 it's worth something to fold a 2-outer, as I think that hand probably has to check-fold the river even if you pass on a turn bet.

Re: Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

Am I the only one who just mucks the flop here?

Re: Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

Check. If these guys are spraying then play defensively and use them to get HU in multiway pots.

Re: Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

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Am I the only one who just mucks the flop here?

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Pretty situational thing but I was pretty sure that was the worst of the 3 options. The fact that he is playing much lower than his usual stakes and there are 4 of us at the table changes things dramatically. He saw me try to cap preflop amd then he does cap. There is just way to high a likelihood that he is effing around with 78s or some sh!t to consider folding. I was very seriously considering not even looking at the flop and just calling down but I thought that would suck if I flopped a set and missed like 15 bets.

Re: Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

There's a K,Q & J out, he capped it and you have two T's. Oh well. If there's a chance he's capping 88-99, what other option is there besides ch behind and call?

Re: Commerce 40 vs. Tongni
 

Two reasons to check the turn:

1. Classic "check w/outs" if you are behind.
2. Simple Defense check to get to showdown cheap.

No, you are not folding, he has 99 or A9s, or 87s since he's at 10% of his normal limit.