2/4 JTs hits flush on river vs. paired board
 

Stars 2/4, 6max. Game is loose and fairly passive.

NL Tournament player trying to make foray into Limit HE. Lots of HE experience (several million hands), limited limit (hee) experience (only 10K hands or so).

Sorry, lost the hand history, but I remember the hand perfectly.

Hero is in CO J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG limps
MP folds
Hero raises to $4
Btn folds
SB folds
BB calls
UTG calls

Pot (13) Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB checks
UTG checks
Hero bets $2
BB folds
UTG raises $2
Hero calls $2

Pot (21) Turn: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG checks
Hero checks

River: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG checks
Hero bets $4
UTG raises $4
Hero calls $4

Final pot (~37)


Thoughts on all streets?

Re: 2/4 JTs hits flush on river vs. paired board
 

Meh...I would've 3bet the flop, but he gave you the free card anyway. I'm a sucker for straight flush draws.

I do like taking the free card here. It's not like he check/called the flop, so I seriously doubt that you have any folding equity whatsoever with a turn bet.

River is suprising. You don't give a read on UTG which makes it pretty difficult to put him on a hand, but really the only things you're worried about are AQ (maybe, from a passive player), Kx [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], or Q4/Q7. Q4/Q7 seem unlikely, and it also seems unlikely that a passive player is going to check/raise an AQQ flop vs. a preflop raiser with the nut flush draw...so really it's a question of whether he flopped the boat or he's just overplaying trips.

Against an unknown I just call the river c/r as well. If I'm good, it's time for a note.

Re: 2/4 JTs hits flush on river vs. paired board
 

[ QUOTE ]
Meh...I would've 3bet the flop, but he gave you the free card anyway. I'm a sucker for straight flush draws.

I do like taking the free card here. It's not like he check/called the flop, so I seriously doubt that you have any folding equity whatsoever with a turn bet.

River is suprising. You don't give a read on UTG which makes it pretty difficult to put him on a hand, but really the only things you're worried about are AQ (maybe, from a passive player), Kx [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], or Q4/Q7. Q4/Q7 seem unlikely, and it also seems unlikely that a passive player is going to check/raise an AQQ flop vs. a preflop raiser with the nut flush draw...so really it's a question of whether he flopped the boat or he's just overplaying trips.

Against an unknown I just call the river c/r as well. If I'm good, it's time for a note.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you 3-bet the flop because you have 12 (theoretical) outs and that induces a turn check more often?

What if he caps you on the flop?

Re: 2/4 JTs hits flush on river vs. paired board
 

[ QUOTE ]
So you 3-bet the flop because you have 12 (theoretical) outs and that induces a turn check more often?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a bit more to it than that. There's also the image factor (makes it easier for me to fastplay a flopped monster against him, and to a lesser extent against other players at the table), but the crux of it is that yes, it often gets me the free card on the turn (when I want it), either because it scares my opponent into checking or because he tries to check/raise me with the Q. Less so on 2/4, but on higher limits you'll also have some people who check/raise that flop with an underpair or less, hoping that I'm scared of the ace and/or queens...if that's the case then 3betting will sometimes win me the pot outright.

If he caps, then I'm obviously stuck calling a turn bet UI anyway. Most of the time.

Re: 2/4 JTs hits flush on river vs. paired board
 

Standard, thats how I would play.

3-betting the flop is prolly a bad idea. I dont think he goes away and he's ahead of you with trips (a very likely holding here) Trying to buy yourself a free card on the turn prolly wont work anyway as he has a good chance of capping flop and leading turn.

The only thing that is debatable is whether to 3-bet the river or not. I think this depends on how villain values hands. Is villain constantly overvalueing or undervalueing his hands? That makes the decision to 3-bet or not a lot easier..

Re: 2/4 JTs hits flush on river vs. paired board
 

nh