Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

6th of course was gonna be a C/R. I figured if he bet 5th, he'd bet 6th.

HORSE - Razz ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (4.20 SB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___folds

5th Street - (3.10 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (5.10 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks

River - (5.10 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___irrelevant

Re: Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

5th may be a check raise, but it's read based.

From the way he played it, it appears he's just playing his scary board and hoping you fold on 5th. After you called on 5th and he got a J on 6th, he shut down. NH, but wheels don't win big pots sometimes.

Re: Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

why not check raise 5th and lead 6th and 7th?

Re: Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

I'll take a line from the book of Andy B and say "bet your damn hand".

Re: Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

If I'm going to be tricky, it's going to be on 4th, where I would check-call sometimes. If I check 5th, I'm check-raising.

Re: Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

I think you guys are right. No sense waiting til 6th since 5th is already an expensive street. If he doesn't already have a pretty strong hand, he should have a strong draw and might chase anyways if I C/R 5th. No money going in on 6th is bad too being OOP.

Re: Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

You were right to bet 3rd, you were right to raise 4th.

5th, with his strong board and your completely made nut hand, you bet that since you have ongoing tempo from 4th and he very well may reraise to force you to define (unlikely since that's a pretty sophisticated play and you never run into that at those levels, but for future edification...)

The Check on 6th wasn't good and made no sense. You called him on 5th, you both bricked 6th so unless you had him tabbed for a very, very aggressive player (who WOULD bet there if he read you as being paired on a draw for 7th) that was a mistake and cost you at least one bet. Basically, it was a gamble, hoping that if he checked 6th off and took a free card on 7th, he would hit gin and cap against your wheel. This is a -EV play in the long run and is gambling.

Re: Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

Bet fifth and hope he likes his hand enough to raise so you can three-bet him. Repeat on sixth.

Re: Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

I would have bet and raised every hand.

If your reraise just call and set the op up for the later streets.

At this level ops tend always to believe your bluffing, but some of them will slow the betting if they feel there domianted.
I prefer to get an extra bet per round out of them than have then just calling the rest of the hand and I can only make it a single bet.

The best part of this hand is the 5 is hidden, very few ops will be prepared to put you on a 5 in the hole (the op tend to put people on 7's or 8's), as most of the time they are trying to find reasons to play, and tend to feel folding as a bad play even if they feel there betten.

This can be seen by the number of ops that will call you to the river with ten high or worst.

Re: Razz - I have a wheel on 5th, can I play it all tricky-like?
 

I bet this the whole way. Based on his board on 5th street, it doesn't look like he is going anywhere. I am a conservative Razz player though and basically just try to figure out how to extract whatever money I can. IMHO, if you think he is the type to call it down....it it your obligation to bet.