bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive tells
 

normally i wouldn't think this hand is all that interesting, except the psychological aspect of it...given the obvious tells i am absolutely sure that villain thinks he has the best hand, the problem is that his hand range includes hands that i have beat

$100 buyin b&m tournament

Blinds: 100/200

Hero: 11k
villain: 12k

villain limps in MP, two more limpers and i call on the button with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], SB completes and BB checks.

flop (6 players): $1200 in pot

6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks, BB checks, villain bets 1k, folded to me, I call, blinds both fold.

Turn (Heads-up): $3200 in pot

T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

villain takes his time stacking chips, sighs, then bets $2100. my immediate reaction is that he is pulling a weak=strong, but still am not really sure where i am at, especially since we saw the flop 6-ways, so i call.

(weak-tight thinking, but his turn bet allowed me to get away from the hand on the river if a diamond falls and he shoves in case he has a hand like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] that would almost always call a shove both here and possibly on the river even if he doesn't make his flush)

River (Heads up): $7400 in pot

5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

villain sighs, says "alright, time for you to send me home kid, I'm all in" and haphazardly just kinds of spills his chips everywhere, ($8,000) and gets up from his seat.

this is a massive tell, and it is just screaming that he knows he has me beat, although since i have shown zero strength the entire hand i might as well have a busted flush draw that cannot call any bet.

i genuinely feel it is possible that he has a hand as weak as AQ given the action without the tell, but with this tell i feel that he can certainly beat aces here.

i go into the tank, and say that I can beat 67, and he tells me that i should definitely call.

Call or fold the river?

Would you play the flop/turn differently?

am i an idiot thats over analyzing the play of an obviously weak player?

any insight whatsoever from players that are better than me, is greatly appreciated.

results to follow.

Re: bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive tells
 

yeah why the hell are you playing this hand so passive id be ramming it on the flop bc there is deceptive value am i on a draw? he doesn't have a set a flush is the only hand that beats you and you are 2 to 1 to draw out on him. i am not relying on him to put money in the pot if he flopped the nuts god bless him he wins my stack.....or maybe i clean his clock. but if he is drawing hes paying to do it

Re: bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive t
 

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i genuinely feel it is possible that he has a hand as weak as AQ given the action without the tell, but with this tell i feel that he can certainly beat aces here.

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number of realistic open limped hands that can beat aces but cannot beat 555: ~2

also, this sure does seem like a modified bad beat post.

Re: bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive t
 

It sounds like he has the nuts.


I bet when you called he did a fist pump and said "YESSSSSSS" and then suavely sat down and smiled at you smugly.

Re: bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive t
 

Personally, I think if he'd flopped the flush, he wouldn't have bet out a near pot size bet so you can safely assume at flop level, you've got him beat, so I'd have beat out and killed any draws or over pairs he might have had but you let him in.

My guess, he was holding something stupid like 8d 4c and you allowed him to suck out by just flat calling.

Re: bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive tells
 

I'm about 100% sure I won't have a tough turn decision cause I'm pushing this on the flop knowing at worst I got a redraw to the boat and MORE OFTEN THAN NOT I got the best hand...like Ham said if he got the floooooosh then good for him.

As played by Hero...it depends on where we are in the tourney (bubble, FT, etc...)...I puke fold most likely but again it depends.

- JA

Re: bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive t
 

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As played by Hero...it depends on where we are in the tourney (bubble, FT, etc...)...I puke fold most likely but again it depends.

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started with 35ish, down to around 20, top 3 or 4 pay.

Re: bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive t
 

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I'm about 100% sure I won't have a tough turn decision cause I'm pushing this on the flop knowing at worst I got a redraw to the boat and MORE OFTEN THAN NOT I got the best hand.

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yeah why the hell are you playing this hand so passive id be ramming it on the flop bc there is deceptive value am i on a draw? he doesn't have a set a flush is the only hand that beats you and you are 2 to 1 to draw out on him

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if i jam the flop, then i'm not getting called by any kind of hand that i WANT to get action from, KQ/QJ/AQ/QT, and getting a guaranteed call out of hands that will very likely be willing to give me more action on turn/river (nut flush draw)

i see absolutely no point in jamming the flop, especially since i have have two players in the blind with literally random hands to act....i prefer calling and re-evaluating on the turn like 95% of the time here.

Re: bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive t
 

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i see absolutely no point in jamming the flop, especially since i have have two players in the blind with literally random hands to act....i prefer calling and re-evaluating on the turn like 95% of the time here.

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well, you shouldn't jam, no. but as far as plain raising, I'll let the rest of the forum tear you a new one over this.

Re: bottom set on monotone flop in 6-way pot, villian giving massive t
 

I don't mind flat calling on flop, but continually flat calling means your giving yourself an hard descision with no information, bar the fact that the guy thinks he's winning, or can fire three bullets. But he's not bluffing.

Reraise the turn, make the descision then. Your more likely to get the read you need then.