pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

I’ve been reading up on this, thinking on it, and wanted some guidance and advice. I currently feel weak at middle-game/relatively small stack, and think getting to know more about pushbotting will help.I seaeched for past discussions, but couldn't find anything on it that was useful.

Do people use SnG powertools (or other software) to help them with decision making, or charts, or experience/feel?

I’ve been doing some reading, and came up with these hands for when I have an M below 10, and an M below 5. These hand ranges are for an unraised pot (though possibly called hands, depending on what my addition does for pot-odds for subsequent bettors – again, comments welcome).

M10-5
Early: AA-66,AQ,ATs
Middle: as above + AT,KQ
Late: AA-22,Axs,AT,KJ,KTs

M <5
Early: AA-66,AT,KQ
Mddle: AA-22,AT,KJ,KTs,QJs-54s
Late: AA-22,Ax,K9,K7s, any 0, 1 or 2-gap suited connectors down to 54s, 64s, 63s

Any comments on these hands for pushbotting? Is M=10 too early for this?

I’m assuming if you ain’t in first, you tighten right up and stick to decent hands only to call. Is that right?


Anyway, any comments on this, advice on working on this part of my game, or any input at all is very welcome.

Re: pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

diebitter,

to be really good at pushbotting, I think you need to go beyond charts.

As an example, I watched one of rizen's videos on PXF yesterday. It was a live commentary of the Stars 55k $10r where he was deep. rizen was semi-short, M of around 10-ish if I remember correctly. Due to the table set-up, his best steal places where actually from UTG and UTG+1 (due to the three aggro giant stacks to his left). This was 7-handed. He raised twice with pretty garbagy hands (97o is the only one I can remember) from UTG+1.

Clearly, concepts like these (taking stack sizes, table dynamics, player images etc) into consideration means you can't use a chart. However, I guess a chart can be a good enough starting point.

I generally don't like to start auto-pushing at M = 10, especially from EP. Full Tilt is another beast, since the antes are so big there compared to Stars.

Your assumption about being first-in is also correct, if we're going to reraise then we're over in resteal territory...which is another thing entirely (and hard to do with much less than 12-13 BBs). Read the anthology links to find some really nice discussions on resteals. I'll just add that I think restealing is more important than stealing in certain situations (stack size, players left, villain's style and the bubble probably being the most important factors) with a stack of 12-20 BBs.

There is a pushbot chart floating around, saw it like half year ago or so...which took number of players and possibly some other factors into account. I think it was well-received. Anyone find it?

Re: pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

There's a good section on this in NLTP also.

Re: pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

my pushbot chart says:
6/10m ranges skewed towards the lower M of 6
early:44+,A9s+,A9o+,
middle:44+,A8s+,A9o+.
Late:22+,A6s+,A7o+,KQs
2/5m
early:33+,A7s,A8o,KQ+
middle:22+,A4s+,A6+,K8s+,KT+,QTs+,QJo,JTs
late:22+,A2+,K4s+,K7+,Q4s+,Q8+,J5s+,J8+,T6s+T8+,96 s+,97+,86s,87o,75s,65s,54s

This is against a table playing "average"ie 22+,A2s+,A2o+KQs you 1st to act.

Re: pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

-- soulman
Yes, i can see it's situational, and charts are the beginning of the formal learning process, not the end. I'm sort of amazed I've got through a year+ of tourneys without concentrating on this before...

Oh and restealing on the bubble is money.

-- phrosty
There is? I'll check it out, but i don't remember it.

-- river
Hmmmm. Mine looks tight then. Tnx.

Re: pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

[ QUOTE ]
-- soulman
Yes, i can see it's situational, and charts are the beginning of the formal learning process, not the end. I'm sort of amazed I've got through a year+ of tourneys without concentrating on this before...

[/ QUOTE ]
Me too [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I assume you've been too tight before?

Anyway, found the pushbot charts that jcm made: here ya go .

Re: pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

It's a short section but they recommend you commit it to memory. Goes into calling ranges for defense of this strategy as well.

Re: pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-- soulman
Yes, i can see it's situational, and charts are the beginning of the formal learning process, not the end. I'm sort of amazed I've got through a year+ of tourneys without concentrating on this before...

[/ QUOTE ]
Me too [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I assume you've been too tight before?

Anyway, found the pushbot charts that jcm made: here ya go .

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh thanks!

Yes a little tight i think and overplaying SC/Axs from early, but the bigger problem is I waited down to M5/M4 before going all in or SNGing, which means a weak FE and even a double up would get lost at the next blind raise.

Re: pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

Soulman - jcm's link in the other post does not work. Any chance you, or anyone else, have a working link please? Or another way to access the chart? Thanks in advance.

Re: pushbotting - what\'s it all about?
 

If you think there's any chance a push might be correct, do it. It probably is.