I hate the turn.
 

I'm SB. I have no read on BTN, for the same reason in my other post. What to do on the turn? And is preflop and flop ok?


Hero: 10c, As
BB: --, --
UTG: --, --
BTN: --, --

Pre-flop:

UTG: Call 8.00
BTN: Call 8.00
Hero: Call 8.00
BB: Check

Flop (Board: 10d, 5c, Jh):

Hero: Bet 8.00
BB: Fold
UTG: Fold
BTN: Raise 16.00
Hero: Call 16.00

Turn (Board: 10d, 5c, Jh, 8h):

Hero: ??

Re: I hate the turn.
 

Without a read, I'd just check/call the turn. If the river blanks, I'd bet/fold the river. Sometimes I would check/call the river if he bets the turn.

By the way, I assume that you're calling 4.00 preflop, and calling 8.00 on the turn after betting. Actions on those streets seem fine to me.

Re: I hate the turn.
 

Raise PF. As played, c/f the turn.

Re: I hate the turn.
 

I agree with raising pf. As played I would c/r a late bettor on the flop to try and deny proper drawing odds/possibly clean Ace outs. As played I think c/f turn is right.

Re: I hate the turn.
 

For those advocating a raise preflop, what's your reason? Trying to fold out BB? Capitalize an equity advantage? If we had only a single limper in already, I could see raising from the SB, but with 2 already in, I don't see the advantage of raising (not to say it's wrong, just wondering).

If raising pre is right, I don't see how, when we've underrepresented our hand, check/folding the turn is right. We're so sure that button only raises the flop with a jack, when the pot was unraised before the flop? And probably a weaker jack at that, since he limped instead of isolating from the button? What range are you c/f-the-turn advocates putting on villain?

Re: I hate the turn.
 

Preflop is fine. Raising here is likely neutral EV - your hand is probably slightly +EV, but your position vs multiple opponents negates that small advantage. Flop also seems fine.

Without a read on button, my turn play would be based on the general table play. If it is typical to raise OESD and flush draws on the flop and continuation bet the turn I might call down here. If not I would check-fold most of the time.

Re: I hate the turn.
 

[ QUOTE ]
We're so sure that button only raises the flop with a jack, when the pot was unraised before the flop? And probably a weaker jack at that, since he limped instead of isolating from the button? What range are you c/f-the-turn advocates putting on villain?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure he has a J. Without a read, it's hard to tell precisely, but I'd say he could have a T sometimes, 555 sometimes, straight draws (Q9, 89, KQ in order of likelihood), 2p sometimes, and other times a J. With the weaker end of this range, he'll probably check thru on turn and then we can probably b/f river for value.

I also see how the pf raise seems close, but anyone with a higher A should be raising that ish, so I'm quite sure we have an equity edge, a rather large one if someone else has a low Ax, that compensates for our poor position.

Re: I hate the turn.
 

[ QUOTE ]
For those advocating a raise preflop, what's your reason? Trying to fold out BB? Capitalize an equity advantage? If we had only a single limper in already, I could see raising from the SB, but with 2 already in, I don't see the advantage of raising (not to say it's wrong, just wondering).


[/ QUOTE ]

ATo gets promoted to monster status in a 4 handed game. Your raising for value. You have greater pot equity and gain for each bet that goes into the pot. Folding out the BB can be a bonus.