OOOPPPPS. Please explain the Razz Rankings
 

New to hoRse. Please help a newbie

I thought an Ace was a low card. Why did I not win.

PokerStars Game #6956603335: Tournament #35502768, $5.00+$0.50 HORSE (Razz Limit) - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/11/09 - 16:29:42 (ET)
Table '35502768 1' 8-max
Seat 1: BusterPapa (3863 in chips)
Seat 2: Chicos75 (4504 in chips)
Seat 7: Sexynrc (3633 in chips)
Sexynrc: posts the ante 40
BusterPapa: posts the ante 40
Chicos75: posts the ante 40
*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to BusterPapa [7c]
Dealt to Chicos75 [5d 3h 2c]
Dealt to Sexynrc [Th]
Sexynrc: brings-in low 60
BusterPapa: raises 140 to 200
Chicos75: raises 200 to 400
Sexynrc: folds
BusterPapa: raises 200 to 600
Chicos75: calls 200
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to BusterPapa [7c] [5h]
Dealt to Chicos75 [5d 3h 2c] [Js]
BusterPapa: bets 200
Chicos75: calls 200
*** 5th STREET ***
Dealt to BusterPapa [7c 5h] [6d]
Dealt to Chicos75 [5d 3h 2c Js] [Ad]
BusterPapa: bets 400
Chicos75: calls 400
*** 6th STREET ***
Dealt to BusterPapa [7c 5h 6d] [2s]
Dealt to Chicos75 [5d 3h 2c Js Ad] [8d]
BusterPapa: bets 400
Chicos75: calls 400
*** RIVER ***
Dealt to Chicos75 [5d 3h 2c Js Ad 8d] [Kh]
BusterPapa: bets 400
Chicos75: calls 400
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BusterPapa: shows [4c 3s 7c 5h 6d 2s Ks] (Lo: 6,5,4,3,2)
Chicos75: mucks hand
BusterPapa collected 4180 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4180 | Rake 0
Seat 1: BusterPapa showed [4c 3s 7c 5h 6d 2s Ks] and won (4180) with Lo: 6,5,4,3,2
Seat 2: Chicos75 mucked [5d 3h 2c Js Ad 8d Kh]
Seat 7: Sexynrc folded on the 3rd Street

Re: OOOPPPPS. Please explain the Razz Rankings
 

You lost because you had the worst hand.

Re: OOOPPPPS. Please explain the Razz Rankings
 

thanks for clearing that up for me

Re: OOOPPPPS. Please explain the Razz Rankings
 

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for clearing that up for me

[/ QUOTE ]

An 8 low loses to a 6 low.

Re: OOOPPPPS. Please explain the Razz Rankings
 

In lowball games, you always read the cards left to right starting with the highest low card to lowest low card.

In this particular hand: your opponent's best 5-card, low, unpaired hand is 65432 (known as a 6-low). Your best 5-card, low, unpaired hand is 8532A (an 8-low).

If you compare the 2 hands, starting from left to right, his 6 is lower than your 8, which ends the comparison... he wins.

Another example: You have 87532, your opponent has 8763A.

Starting from left to right, you each have an 8, so you go to the next card to break the tie. You each have a 7. Again, go to the next card to break the tie. On the 3rd card, you have a 5 which is lower than your opponent's 6...the comparison stops...you win with your 875-low besting his 876-low.

Re: OOOPPPPS. Please explain the Razz Rankings
 

as a general rule in poker the hands are ranked according to how rare they are dealt. A flush is more rare than a straight so it is higher.

In holdem, omaha hi, and stud, this "rule" is broken for a lot of hands; flushes, two pair hands and high card hands, for example - the easiest hands to make are the best (ace high flush being the most common flush, aces up is the most common two pair hand, ace high is the most common high card hand). If these games were more "pure", they would regard the lowest high card as the determining factor (AA22 would lose to KKQQ because "queens down" is better than "deuces down" - likewise AT987 would lose to KQJT8 in a flush or high card hand)

Most (all?) lowball games that I know of are purely based on the premise of rarest hands. there is only one way to make a wheel in razz (A2345), five ways to make a six high (A2346/A2356/A2456/A3456/23456), etc. eights are much much easier to make than sixes, that's why you lost.

Re: OOOPPPPS. Please explain the Razz Rankings
 

[ QUOTE ]
as a general rule in poker the hands are ranked according to how rare they are dealt. A flush is more rare than a straight so it is higher.

In holdem, omaha hi, and stud, this "rule" is broken for a lot of hands; flushes, two pair hands and high card hands, for example - the easiest hands to make are the best (ace high flush being the most common flush, aces up is the most common two pair hand, ace high is the most common high card hand). If these games were more "pure", they would regard the lowest high card as the determining factor (AA22 would lose to KKQQ because "queens down" is better than "deuces down" - likewise AT987 would lose to KQJT8 in a flush or high card hand)


[/ QUOTE ]

I like it.

Another way to eliminate this glaring inconsistency is to eliminate all differences based on rank. I call this variant "discrete poker." AAAKK beats a straight or flush but splits the pot with 66677. For maximum consistency straights must be allowed to wrap around (for example QKA23); otherwise there are fewer straights using an ace.

However, I take issue with your assertion that lowball is generally consistent. Only A-5 has this property. In 2-7 the incredibly rare 2s3s4s5s7s (and the 3 similar hands) loses to the 1020 unsuited 75's. (Though note that in your proposed ranking scheme for high the 7-high flush is the nut flush.)

Re: OOOPPPPS. Please explain the Razz Rankings
 

"However, I take issue with your assertion that lowball is generally consistent."

good point, but that's sort of the idea with lowball, right? instead of straight flush > quads > boat > flush etc, it is high card > pair > two pair etc. it's really the ranking withing the hand categories that I was talking about.