mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

a 20/40 game at foxwoods last friday night. villain 1 is a late 20s fat guy that thinks he is good but in general is too loose and too passive, but is prone to bouts of aggressiveness. Villain is running sick hot and peels flops with a wide range of hands.

fat guy open limps in early MP, villain 2 limps OTB, I complete in the sb with 75hh, bb checks.

flop is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I check, bb checks, fat guy bets, villain 2 calls, I call, bb folds.

turn 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I bet...

I was planning on folding to a raise. If called I'm likely going to check most rivers if hu or 3 ways and call (but not overcall) depending on how pretty or ugly the river is.

Do we like?

Re: mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

I think it's ok but it depends a lot on your image. If this is the guy I'm thinking about I agree about the random aggressiveness and think it's possible he'd raise you with a worse hand -- he probably would raise me because I would always bet the flop with any eight. villain 2 is kind of the wild card in all of this, especially if you get two callers here and face a bet on the river. also you should probably bet an ace river.

Re: mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

eh, you over called flop then led turn, looks like an 8, but you won't get fat guy off an overpair or a big draw, so if he calls you'll have to check out of position on river and likely face a bet. yuck.

fold flop, this isn't the type of flop you want to see with a hand like 75s out of positon.

Re: mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

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eh, you over called flop then led turn, looks like an 8, but you won't get fat guy off an overpair or a big draw, so if he calls you'll have to check out of position on river and likely face a bet. yuck.

fold flop, this isn't the type of flop you want to see with a hand like 75s out of positon.

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how many hands are beating you on this flop?

I would imagine we are ahead on this flop are large majority of the time. People will bet and peel on this flop with only over(s) all the time.

I think the turn is a good value bet. I don't think a hand other than an 8 is raising you and I think a lot of overcard hands will look you up.

I think you may even be able to value bet a lot of rivers even if both call the turn.

Re: mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

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eh, you over called flop then led turn, looks like an 8, but you won't get fat guy off an overpair or a big draw, so if he calls you'll have to check out of position on river and likely face a bet. yuck.

fold flop, this isn't the type of flop you want to see with a hand like 75s out of positon.

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how many hands are beating you on this flop?

I would imagine we are ahead on this flop are large majority of the time. People will bet and peel on this flop with only over(s) all the time.

I think the turn is a good value bet. I don't think a hand other than an 8 is raising you and I think a lot of overcard hands will look you up.

I think you may even be able to value bet a lot of rivers even if both call the turn.

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i dont think OP's particularly looking to be beating much just taking away a pot in the likelihood villain will peel and fold the river UI.

Re: mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

I think the flop is any easy bet and take it from there, tending toward betting every street.

Not sure why you checked, but if I did, I would c/r and lead the turn. That flop just doesn't hit very many hands but it does induce a lot of overcard calling, so take it while you can.

Re: mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

I dunno, I don't like. I think if you're gonna check this flop it should be w/ the intentino of check/raising. sucks w/ the callers in there but with the backdoor flush/pair outs you can get a pretty good idea where you stand and whether you should be callin the flop or not.

Re: mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

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i dont think OP's particularly looking to be beating much just taking away a pot in the likelihood villain will peel and fold the river UI.

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I think if I'm called on the turn I very likely have the best hand, which in turn means I'm often against a draw or overcards peeling again. Thus I think come the river checking to induce a bluff is more profitable than betting for value (btw, betting the river as a bluff is awful as nobody is ever folding a better hand).

Re: mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

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I think the flop is any easy bet and take it from there, tending toward betting every street.

Not sure why you checked, but if I did, I would c/r and lead the turn. That flop just doesn't hit very many hands but it does induce a lot of overcard calling, so take it while you can.

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my plan on the flop was to check and see. I was going to c/r if fat guy or villain 2 bet and it came back to me HU. I considered betting the flop, but villain 2 had a propensity for stabbing at pots when checked to.

Re: mid pair hand multiway 20/40
 

i would play it the same if any blank came on the turn, not just the 8. did your plan change or just become enhanced with the board pairing?