Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

Long time lurker (since '03), first time poster.

Game is running very TAG except for two soft spots who are giving their money away.

Villian in the hand is TAGish with LAG tendancies in position. He is stuck at least a rack, but is playing relatively straight forward. He is directly on my left and we've been banging heads in BvB and button steal situations. He knows I'm TAG, but may see me as a bit weak-tight after a more recent hand that I played passively.

Folded to me in the highjack and I open up with KQo, Villian 3-bets in the CO, folds back to me and I call.

Flop: K-Q-8r

I c/r and villian calls.

Turn: Tx

Bet, call

River: Jx

Your line?

I think this is an easy spot, but I got questioned about my play by a very good player and wanted to get other's opinions. Thanks.

-Blake

Re: Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

check/call?

Re: Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

Isn't bet-folding standard here?

Re: Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

In these games, I find that when Hero checks in this spot, it's an offensive check, meant to pick off a bluff, and everyone knows it, and people don't try to bluff them.

So absent any further read, I'd check and fold. Many of his hands beat you, and (importantly) he's betting almost 100% of what beats you. Every so often he'll show up with KJ or whatever *and* bluff with it, but again this won't happen enough to think you're ahead more than once in nine or so.

In short -- you're beaten here far more than not, almost always by AK, AQ, AJ, or AT. Check and fold, unless this guy will bluff the river *almost every time* he doesn't have a straight, in which case you should check and call.

--Nate

Re: Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

Thanks for the responses so far.

Nate, you're absolutely righr about the offensive check, and I had already made this play once in a BvB situation with him where I bet the flop and turn and check-called my bottom pair on the river and MHWG. So if I check here, I am folding 98% of the time. Checking and calling is my least favorite line, because I think a good/aggressive player is more likely to bluff raise than to bluff bet.

Re: Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

bet/fold

Re: Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

[ QUOTE ]
bet/fold

[/ QUOTE ]


This was the line I planned to take, but he just made the crying call and MHWG. Betting here seemed thin, but certainly standard against above average opponents.

-Blake

Re: Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

This is a good hand to post, thanks OP. I usually check-call in this spot, and the discussion here taught me that bet/fold is definitely better.

The reason I usually c/c is because it's retarded to check with a straight, so the opponent would know I didn't have an A. Because of that, I'd expect him to value bet worse 2 pairs. But now I see that thinking is wrong, and bet/folding is superior -- unless you think he'll bluff-raise here, which I think is pretty rare.

Re: Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

If you check, will the villain really bet KJ? Many live players won't, particularly if they see you as tight/passive. In this case, c/f is the clear choice. There are obviously more hands you lose to than beat here.

Re: Borgata 40-80, KQo
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you check, will the villain really bet KJ? Many live players won't, particularly if they see you as tight/passive. In this case, c/f is the clear choice. There are obviously more hands you lose to than beat here.

[/ QUOTE ]

We definitely agree that villian won't bet a worse hand, but I think the rarity of a bluff raise and the possibility that I get called by a worse two pair make this a good bet/fold spot. I would much rather lose a bet when I have to fold, than miss a bet when I have the best hand.

I will also say that I think a majority of the hands that beat me on the river should be 3-betting the flop trying to buy a free shot at their gutterball or aces-up.