I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

I have no idea where 8/16 hands are supposed to go, I was reading hands on this forum, so it's easier to post here. It's a live game, villain is new to the table, either coming off a broken NL table or just arrived and waiting for a NL seat. The point is he's probably a NL player. So far not much of a read on what kind of cards he plays, which means he probably plays tighter than the average idiot in this game.

3 limps including villain, I raise on the button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and the blinds fold amazingly. Villain points at his cards and tells the dealer "give me some of this" and I decide that I'm not going to have any of this nonsense, so I tap my cards and tell the dealer "no, give me some of this".

Flop A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Checks to me, I bet, 2 folds and villain calls.

Turn 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villain bets, I value raise my nuts, he thinks for a couple seconds and calls.

River 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villain bets, I'm thoroughly confused, but I still like my hand quite a bit here.

Raise/call a 3 bet? Raise/fold? Call? Fold face up and slap my penis on the table?

Re: I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

raise and call a 3-bet

Re: I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

Never fold. I raise here and think you can safely fold to a 3bet.

Re: I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

[ QUOTE ]
Never fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

he says, except

[ QUOTE ]
you can safely fold to a 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh I think you are looking at the frequency that you will win the extra bet when you have the winning hand. I think this depends on the opponent. The read appears to be telling you that his cards are suited or paired [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] which doesn't help. I guess you are safest simply calling because raising reopens the betting which is real bad for you if he has boated up and 3-bets. If you feel you have to fold to a 3-bet, you also may not see his cards.

Re: I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

DeeJ,

i meant for 1 bet, i think that was clear

Re: I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

it was obvious but y'know, it kinda read funny. What do you think villain has most here? boat? weaker flush? pathetic set or twopair?

Re: I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

[ QUOTE ]
Never fold. I raise here and think you can safely fold to a 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a pretty much unknown villain I am paying off a three-bet. There is no way I am not showing down here.

Re: I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

he could be on air, could be donking a spade trying to take the pot down. I know (obv) that he doesn't have a better flush than us, I would have expected to hear from a set earlier, and I don't think he can 3bet you without a fullhouse. Sometimes they'll just call you with a fullhouse here (this is live poker right?)

Re: I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

66 is just about the only boat that makes sense to me.

Re: I\'m so confused, 8/16 river line
 

His hand range is A4, 44, JT with the jack of spades, AT, baby flush, air. I don't think he could have 66 unless he's a complete idiot.

I think it's a lot closer as far as raising that I initially thought. This raise cannot be for value unless he's an idiot since the only hand that could possibly call with is JT and even then he might lay that down. The raise won't fold better hands, worse hands will rarely call, and better hands will sometimes reraise (44 will definitley reraise and A4 will very likely reraise)

I think this is a call since I see no value in raising against an unknown.