3/6 NL HU video
 

I saw a "free demo" of a 3/6 HU video on your site. The opponent AAROCKAA was me. Shouldn't your professional site get approval from me to be filmed? I was shocked to see this video out there w/o my consent. I see it as , if you're making money showing people how I play, then I should be too. Are there any other videos of me that I don't know about?

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

While I'm technically not the PR rep for the site I'm going to take a stab at this and suggest that since your play (from an observer standpoint) is freely available to anyone who cares to watch the table it's technically not your intellectual property.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

What about all the users of PokerTracker or other software, very similar here. The information is public, granted this is new territory, but anyone can watch the games online.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

Can you record a NFL game (or any sporting event/ movie/song/ect.) then rebroadcast it for a profit?

NO..

Not that im all gung-ho about this or anything, but I do think this is a very valid point...

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
While I'm technically not the PR rep for the site I'm going to take a stab at this and suggest that since your play (from an observer standpoint) is freely available to anyone who cares to watch the table it's technically not your intellectual property.

[/ QUOTE ]

its not the same thing though, because the video (HU) is sharing knowledge on this player and his game. Similar(?) to stat sharing programs that are 100% against all site's rules.

Just kind of an interesting OP

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

This is what I do for a living. For my game to be exposed like this to the regulars I play against everyday makes me feel violated. Also, it worries me that my style of play will be more exploitable.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

I agree with you here, and I'm kind of surprised it hasn't come up before. Yes it's technically not your intellectual property and I agree with that also. But people are re-distributing it and making $ off it, possibly at your expense.

I'm kind of shocked also that one of the sites hasn't said something about it, since $ is being made from making vids on their site without their consent, and without getting their piece of the pie.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

They should use the 'tilt blocker' to block out players' names.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

I would send a complaint to your online cardroom. Usually it is against their terms of use to record films of their software for redistribution.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

I think the hands really are in the public domain, there is nothing at all shady about showing them.

As for discussing how you play -- I agree it would be the nice thing to do for the video maker to ask for your consent, especially if you are both regulars, but I don't think he has any obligation to do it. For me, it is like hitting and running, or joining a game that two players clearly want to keep HU. Not strictly wrong, but not polite.

However:
- the video is probably more useful to you than to anyone else, especially if your opponent was a strong player
- where do you draw the line? If it was a 9 handed table would it still be impolite to discuss the game without all 8 opponents' permission? Perhaps the poster above is right and some way of blocking out screen names is best (easy to do with most recording software).

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can you record a NFL game (or any sporting event/ movie/song/ect.) then rebroadcast it for a profit?

NO..

Not that im all gung-ho about this or anything, but I do think this is a very valid point...

[/ QUOTE ]

What a horrible analogy.

ESPN OWNS the rights to MNF, no one owns the rights to view a fulltilt table.

OP: You are way off here, there is no reason to ask you.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

Why don't they just block out the names if they can't contact the person to ask them to be put on a website?

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

I think there's a huge difference between datamining a table and having an experienced poker player and coach analyizing the weaknesses of a certain player in public, especially one playing HU games. Maybe one of the NL experts of stoxpoker could do some compensation by helping OP to get rid of some leaks by offering a free hour (or 2) of pvt coaching.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a huge difference between datamining a table and having an experienced poker player and coach analyizing the weaknesses of a certain player in public, especially one playing HU games. Maybe one of the NL experts of stoxpoker could do some compensation by helping OP to get rid of some leaks by offering a free hour (or 2) of pvt coaching.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just renovated my house for 100k and I whip a brand new BMW. Must be results of short term upswing...

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a huge difference between datamining a table and having an experienced poker player and coach analyizing the weaknesses of a certain player in public, especially one playing HU games. Maybe one of the NL experts of stoxpoker could do some compensation by helping OP to get rid of some leaks by offering a free hour (or 2) of pvt coaching.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just renovated my house for 100k and I whip a brand new BMW. Must be results of short term upswing...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just curious - were you ArmenH on Bodog about a year ago?

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
They should use the 'tilt blocker' to block out players' names.

[/ QUOTE ]I think this is an excellent idea

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a huge difference between datamining a table and having an experienced poker player and coach analyizing the weaknesses of a certain player in public, especially one playing HU games. Maybe one of the NL experts of stoxpoker could do some compensation by helping OP to get rid of some leaks by offering a free hour (or 2) of pvt coaching.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just renovated my house for 100k and I whip a brand new BMW. Must be results of short term upswing...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just curious - were you ArmenH on Bodog about a year ago?

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]


Obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wowowow you were so bad. You must have improved a ton since then if you're beating 25/50 live. I had you at like 43/13 over 400 hands a year ago.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wowowow you were so bad. You must have improved a ton since then if you're beating 25/50 live. I had you at like 43/13 over 400 hands a year ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

WOwowowoowwo, did you really? Wowowowowowwoowow, noway! I'm watching your instructional video right now. Why would people pay you money to teach them poker. Gl.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

That's Shootaa's video and he'd tear you up. I wouldn't mind playing you either tbh.

In regards to having you in their video, it's a little sucky but I think if you learned from it, you'll gain more than any of your opponents will.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a huge difference between datamining a table and having an experienced poker player and coach analyizing the weaknesses of a certain player in public, especially one playing HU games. Maybe one of the NL experts of stoxpoker could do some compensation by helping OP to get rid of some leaks by offering a free hour (or 2) of pvt coaching.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like if OP (and others shown in videos) actually watched the whole thing they'd get plenty of free instruction on their own image and on how their tougher opponents play.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a huge difference between datamining a table and having an experienced poker player and coach analyizing the weaknesses of a certain player in public, especially one playing HU games. Maybe one of the NL experts of stoxpoker could do some compensation by helping OP to get rid of some leaks by offering a free hour (or 2) of pvt coaching.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like if OP (and others shown in videos) actually watched the whole thing they'd get plenty of free instruction on their own image and on how their tougher opponents play.

[/ QUOTE ]
In order to watch the video I would have to become a member of their site...Never going to happen.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a huge difference between datamining a table and having an experienced poker player and coach analyizing the weaknesses of a certain player in public, especially one playing HU games. Maybe one of the NL experts of stoxpoker could do some compensation by helping OP to get rid of some leaks by offering a free hour (or 2) of pvt coaching.

[/ QUOTE ]

In public? These videos are offered only on private sites and are pay-to-view only. These videos are pretty much the opposite of public.

In any case, I do not think the OP's complaint is about privacy or potential exploitation [of his game], but rather he just wants $$$$ because he was in the video.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

AAROCKAA, is that not Prahlad?

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

Ah, I didn't notice that this was a HU match originally. I can see that being moreso of an issue from a personal perspective and have generally offered free subscriptions to people I've played against HU for StoxPoker content as a courtesy (and also because I sacked a few of them). Note that that is not site policy, just something I've been doing personally as a part owner.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
They should use the 'tilt blocker' to block out players' names.

[/ QUOTE ]

this seems like the best post in this thread. problem solved, no?

i think it also be great for the training site owners, as they can also play w/o 2+2'ers goofing them sitting in the same tables, etc...

everyone wins all around.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They should use the 'tilt blocker' to block out players' names.

[/ QUOTE ]

this seems like the best post in this thread. problem solved, no?

i think it also be great for the training site owners, as they can also play w/o 2+2'ers goofing them sitting in the same tables, etc...

everyone wins all around.

[/ QUOTE ]

The may be problems with the last hand history feature and also the chat (although that can be turned off.)

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They should use the 'tilt blocker' to block out players' names.

[/ QUOTE ]

this seems like the best post in this thread. problem solved, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

No - you still have a problem with someone who wants to see exactly how OP plays just observing the table directly without watching any videos.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They should use the 'tilt blocker' to block out players' names.

[/ QUOTE ]

this seems like the best post in this thread. problem solved, no?

[/ QUOTE ]


No - you still have a problem with someone who wants to see exactly how OP plays just observing the table directly without watching any videos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, I don't think anyone ever complained about that though? I'd guess you're trying to be glib in order to belittle OP about how silly his concerns are, but it doesn't speak to the root of his issue (that seems easily solved)

I think OP's gripe is rooted in the instructor disseminating running commentary about how to beat/exploit OP with his name on the screen.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think OP's gripe is rooted in the instructor disseminating running commentary about how to beat/exploit OP with his name on the screen.

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems to be what this thread evolved into, but where do you read that in the op:

[ QUOTE ]

I saw a "free demo" of a 3/6 HU video on your site. The opponent AAROCKAA was me. Shouldn't your professional site get approval from me to be filmed? I was shocked to see this video out there w/o my consent. I see it as , if you're making money showing people how I play, then I should be too. Are there any other videos of me that I don't know about?

[/ QUOTE ]

His only complaint seems to be $$$$.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

I have been working on some other matters today and just checked this thread.

We will repost the video with the name blocked out.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

See it as a free 500$ coaching less from one of the best players. I'd be glad to be dissected and learn from my own mistakes.

Unless you are a very weak ABC player with no capabilities to adjust or improve your game the slightest this should be great for you.

One obvious area you can improve on is table selection [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
One obvious area you can improve on is table selection [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

[/ QUOTE ]
You are wrong. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]

I think the hands really are in the public domain, there is nothing at all shady about showing them.

As for discussing how you play -- I agree it would be the nice thing to do for the video maker to ask for your consent, especially if you are both regulars, but I don't think he has any obligation to do it. For me, it is like hitting and running, or joining a game that two players clearly want to keep HU. Not strictly wrong, but not polite.

However:
- the video is probably more useful to you than to anyone else, especially if your opponent was a strong player
- where do you draw the line? If it was a 9 handed table would it still be impolite to discuss the game without all 8 opponents' permission? Perhaps the poster above is right and some way of blocking out screen names is best (easy to do with most recording software).

[/ QUOTE ]

Just talking about the bold part, it is not correct to say that the information shown in the video is public, because mucked hands at showdown are NOT shown to observers, thus revealing a TON more information that is only allowed to be had by his opponent.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

I think OP has a valid point. I wouldn't want my HU matches being analyzed by very good players and then sold for $. Probably best bet is to just block the names next time.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

I'm a bit turned off by this whole discussion. First...the OP was just voicing his opinion about how he didn't like to be exploited in front of everyone for someone else to profit $ off of. I think its a valid point. Second...that same player...was ridiculed on here by some of the producers of the vids...totally not cool..nor professional. If you want to produce a quality product and have it mass marketed, you should probably learn to do a bit better PR. I know my game needs help..as I have very little time to devote to it..but was thinking of joining your site...to use the videos. After reading this post..there is no way I will..nor will I promote it to other players. Gain some professionalism about how you treat others..and I may reconsider. Good luck guys!

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

dontquit - we can take criticism, but reserve the right to question unfounded criticism.

please point out a post in this thread where a stoxpoker video producer ridicules the OP. I'm tempted to just delete your post outright, which I may still do but wanted to give you a chance to justify your claim.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

Why not just block out his name though?

Seems reasonable.

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have been working on some other matters today and just checked this thread.

We will repost the video with the name blocked out.



[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 3/6 NL HU video
 

stoxpoker:
"Wowowow you were so bad. You must have improved a ton since then if you're beating 25/50 live. I had you at like 43/13 over 400 hands a year ago. "

www.dictionary.com + ridicule