Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

Question: Regarding the very big, live game, full table NLH games, how many players who are, or were, considered mainly internet players, would be among the top twenty best players, playing that game?

Kenny Tran answered "zero". Assuming Patrik is not counted as an internet player.

Many here disagreed, but when on to say that Patrik would be a much better person to ask if I wanted the right answer. So I did today. And after he answered me (after about 15 seconds of thought as opposed to Kenny who didn't think at all) I asked for his permission to post it.




His answer was zero.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by jman220

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]


His answer was zero.

[/ QUOTE ]
wow

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

I guess PA doesn't know Grimstarr.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

OP,

you are a waste of life

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP,

you are a waste of life

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

no surprise really.

ive seen this discussion so mnay times n different areas.

is xbox360 better than ps3? is skatboarding cooler than inlines? is snowboarding cooler than skiing? etc...


i cant really judge this but:
online players would kill live pros shirthanded 100bb online, probably deeper as well.
live players would kill onlien players in deep fullring games.
is it not very reasonable that that is correct? is anyone saying something else?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

Surprising..

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

yeah i'm gonna go ahead and post on the first page here.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah i'm gonna go ahead and post on the first page here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

would be interesting to hear who both he and kenny actually rates as the best.


is doyle one of the top ones? greenstein? gane thler? kenny himself?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

lets this thread die please. people can say whatever they want and no one will ever find out the correct answer. pokers all luck anyways.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

well online players clearly don't know how to play full ring..why didn't you ask about the very big, live game, SHORT-HANDED NLH games instead?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

why does everything DS post turns into a clusterfuck. who cares even what PA or KT thinks

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

WOW DAVID! This is breaking news.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

Always struggling to come up with a versatile, if not favorable side dish, I asked my daughter which she prefers - Rice-A-Roni or buttered noodles.





Her answer was melted Velvetta over steamed broccoli

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

What is his thoughts about it?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

What's telling is the "name" live players never seem to allow easy access to the games for the online guys. At least, that's my experience when trying to get into private LHE games I've never once been given a chance to play in. From what I hear of the NL guys, the story is pretty similar.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]

Always struggling to come up with a versatile, if not favorable side dish, I asked my daughter which she prefers - Rice-A-Roni or buttered noodles.





Her answer was melted Velvetta over steamed broccoli

[/ QUOTE ]


qfyummy.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

I'm about to go to whataburger and get some breakfast

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

wow. That really strengthens the live player side of the argument.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm about to go to whataburger and get some breakfast

[/ QUOTE ]

Have a nice meal ^_^

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

This is interesting, thanks OP.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

Antonius = best leveller ever?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

I think the answer to all this is simple. Online guys see a lot more hands and are generally just all around smarter than the old school love pros. IF and a big IF, the live guys are better at live deep stacked poker, then it would just be a matter of the top online NL pros dedicating themselves to the nuances of deep stacked play and then it would be all over for the live guys. And obviously with 100bb stacks it's not even close. The online guys would destroy the live guys.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

Yeah, this is seriously ridiculous to think that the top online pros would not be able to adjust to a full ring game well enough to have a good edge against most of the live pros.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

is it me or is online players some fraternity of "we are the best" and so forth.

no matter how its sliced, we are all poker players.

each realm has its own advantages and disadvantages.

but whatever, it all goes back to what ive said before. the best players play anyone anytime. i guarentee patrik will play omg and uridanger and luclongley anytime but they wont play him. ive seen it before. urindanger is sitting and patrik sits in front of him........and uridanger splits.

theres only two online guys i used to respect and thats sbrugby and durrrrr. they played anyone anytime usually but now sb is trying to figure out how to play again and durrr is just shortstacking so now i dont see how anyone from the online world can argue with kenny or patrik.

the top dogs here arent even challenging patrik on the online court where the onliners are supposed to have an edge. so what makes anyone in here think these online guys are better?

and i dont want to hear anything about how the ev is so small and all that crap. i never hear ivey or patrik or kenny talk about ev. they just play.

the online guys should either prove it or bow down or just forget the argument of the differences between online and live players. its a pussy argument on the online side because all i see is the online world "talking" and not backing it up enough.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

I have been a proponent of the online player side of the argument for a while now but this just makes me do a 180. I mean who could be better suited to answer this question than PA?

I am not saying im convinced overall but this makes the endless arguement slightly more interesting.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

David,

Did you ask him about the top 20 in a deep live shorthanded NLHE game?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
is it me or is online players some fraternity of "we are the best" and so forth.

no matter how its sliced, we are all poker players.

each realm has its own advantages and disadvantages.

but whatever, it all goes back to what ive said before. the best players play anyone anytime. i guarentee patrik will play omg and uridanger and luclongley anytime but they wont play him. ive seen it before. urindanger is sitting and patrik sits in front of him........and uridanger splits.

theres only two online guys i used to respect and thats sbrugby and durrrrr. they played anyone anytime usually but now sb is trying to figure out how to play again and durrr is just shortstacking so now i dont see how anyone from the online world can argue with kenny or patrik.

the top dogs here arent even challenging patrik on the online court where the onliners are supposed to have an edge. so what makes anyone in here think these online guys are better?

and i dont want to hear anything about how the ev is so small and all that crap. i never hear ivey or patrik or kenny talk about ev. they just play.

the online guys should either prove it or bow down or just forget the argument of the differences between online and live players. its a pussy argument on the online side because all i see is the online world "talking" and not backing it up enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the online guys don't want to play 1 guy, that makes them overall worse than the live set? I don't really follow your logic.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

this should be an argument where both sides agree to disagree. i'm not saying PA or KT are right, im just saying that they are obviously not gonna change their opinion.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is it me or is online players some fraternity of "we are the best" and so forth.

no matter how its sliced, we are all poker players.

each realm has its own advantages and disadvantages.

but whatever, it all goes back to what ive said before. the best players play anyone anytime. i guarentee patrik will play omg and uridanger and luclongley anytime but they wont play him. ive seen it before. urindanger is sitting and patrik sits in front of him........and uridanger splits.

theres only two online guys i used to respect and thats sbrugby and durrrrr. they played anyone anytime usually but now sb is trying to figure out how to play again and durrr is just shortstacking so now i dont see how anyone from the online world can argue with kenny or patrik.

the top dogs here arent even challenging patrik on the online court where the onliners are supposed to have an edge. so what makes anyone in here think these online guys are better?

and i dont want to hear anything about how the ev is so small and all that crap. i never hear ivey or patrik or kenny talk about ev. they just play.

the online guys should either prove it or bow down or just forget the argument of the differences between online and live players. its a pussy argument on the online side because all i see is the online world "talking" and not backing it up enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the online guys don't want to play 1 guy, that makes them overall worse than the live set? I don't really follow your logic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

Alright, I'll chime in with my opinion (albeit worthless probably)

We all play poker, sure, but we play many different versions. That difference could be in the type of game, hold'em, omaha, stud, or mixed. It could be in the style of game, whether it be cash games, SNGs, or MTTs. And it could also be where and how we play, live or online. Now, there are people who are good at omaha, suck at hold'em. There are people who are amazing at cash games, can't last 5 minutes in a MTT. There are tons of great SNGs players who would be lost in a MTT field. We consider these players to be great at their own specific 'study' of poker. I think the same can be said for live and online. There are very few pros before the poker boom who have adjusted and played online successfully, a very big exception to this would be PA and maybe DB/Gus if you want to call them successful. The reason most online players would not be as good as live is because of the way online compares to live. Online you see 4x as many hands, can generally figue out players better (not reads, but the style they play) and so on. Many online players cannot adjust to having to play so slow, with such great concentration and study to play a NLHE cash game. The same can be said for live players trying to play online. They are lost at playing so many hands and playing more or less by feel than sitting there staring at how a player acts during a hand.

It's like saying is A better than B because A beat C while B beat D, but C and D are equal, if that makes much sense lol

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the answer to all this is simple. Online guys see a lot more hands and are generally just all around smarter than the old school love pros. IF and a big IF, the live guys are better at live deep stacked poker, then it would just be a matter of the top online NL pros dedicating themselves to the nuances of deep stacked play and then it would be all over for the live guys. And obviously with 100bb stacks it's not even close. The online guys would destroy the live guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

and you don't think the opposite is true for the live guys? you don't think if they farted around with 100bb stacks for a few months, they couldn't torture the online games? if so, why not?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
this should be an argument where both sides agree to disagree. i'm not saying PA or KT are right, im just saying that they are obviously not gonna change their opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah this seems like a non-productive argument really for many reasons.

But that broccoli and cheese person sounds like they have life down pretty well.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is it me or is online players some fraternity of "we are the best" and so forth.

no matter how its sliced, we are all poker players.

each realm has its own advantages and disadvantages.

but whatever, it all goes back to what ive said before. the best players play anyone anytime. i guarentee patrik will play omg and uridanger and luclongley anytime but they wont play him. ive seen it before. urindanger is sitting and patrik sits in front of him........and uridanger splits.

theres only two online guys i used to respect and thats sbrugby and durrrrr. they played anyone anytime usually but now sb is trying to figure out how to play again and durrr is just shortstacking so now i dont see how anyone from the online world can argue with kenny or patrik.

the top dogs here arent even challenging patrik on the online court where the onliners are supposed to have an edge. so what makes anyone in here think these online guys are better?

and i dont want to hear anything about how the ev is so small and all that crap. i never hear ivey or patrik or kenny talk about ev. they just play.

the online guys should either prove it or bow down or just forget the argument of the differences between online and live players. its a pussy argument on the online side because all i see is the online world "talking" and not backing it up enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the online guys don't want to play 1 guy, that makes them overall worse than the live set? I don't really follow your logic.

[/ QUOTE ]

who says anything about logic leatherass? the whole argument is stupid anyway. its like southside mexicans at war with northside yet they are all mexicans. for some reason two different territories all of a sudden makes a difference.

i dont even know if i'm making a point. how can i to a stupid argument. but i'll tell you guys what. patrik is sitting all the time. he is a "live" player. he is in your home court. GO AFTER HIM and teach him a lesson about how good online players are........if they are that goddamn good.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

Lets ask mike matusow his opinion.

I mean he's lost a lot of money on Full Tilt so obviously he has to respect the skill of the online players, right?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is it me or is online players some fraternity of "we are the best" and so forth.

no matter how its sliced, we are all poker players.

each realm has its own advantages and disadvantages.

but whatever, it all goes back to what ive said before. the best players play anyone anytime. i guarentee patrik will play omg and uridanger and luclongley anytime but they wont play him. ive seen it before. urindanger is sitting and patrik sits in front of him........and uridanger splits.

theres only two online guys i used to respect and thats sbrugby and durrrrr. they played anyone anytime usually but now sb is trying to figure out how to play again and durrr is just shortstacking so now i dont see how anyone from the online world can argue with kenny or patrik.

the top dogs here arent even challenging patrik on the online court where the onliners are supposed to have an edge. so what makes anyone in here think these online guys are better?

and i dont want to hear anything about how the ev is so small and all that crap. i never hear ivey or patrik or kenny talk about ev. they just play.

the online guys should either prove it or bow down or just forget the argument of the differences between online and live players. its a pussy argument on the online side because all i see is the online world "talking" and not backing it up enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the online guys don't want to play 1 guy, that makes them overall worse than the live set? I don't really follow your logic.

[/ QUOTE ]

who says anything about logic leatherass? the whole argument is stupid anyway. its like southside mexicans at war with northside yet they are all mexicans. for some reason two different territories all of a sudden makes a difference.

i dont even know if i'm making a point. how can i to a stupid argument. but i'll tell you guys what. patrik is sitting all the time. he is a "live" player. he is in your home court. GO AFTER HIM and teach him a lesson about how good online players are........if they are that goddamn good.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol...

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

Sklanskys not saying tran is saying the best players in the world play live.

He's saying that in the biggest live 10 handed cash games, the people who play the best in this game are players who primarly play live.
Big difference.

Here are MULITPLE reasons why this doesnt mean that live > internet.

1) The best live players are likely to have more experience with the weaker live players at the table (because they grind live), so have more information to base their play on.. Maximally exploiting their opposition. They can focus their attention to the internet players, while the internt players are forced to study every player at the table.

2) access to the high stakes live games, and thus more experience. See schneids' post.

3) Deep stacked 10 handed cash games with very very skilled tricky players are a rarity online. Live , not so much. Again.. experience.


So live players should have much more experience playing their type of game than online players, which should lead to better play (assuming the same innate skill sets)... The only way internet players would be considered EQUALS was if the online players were dramatically superior "poker thinkers" and able to adapt incredibly as to beat the live players in their own element.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

sklansky, the troll?