Value betting the river in multiway pots
 

One of the problems im finding more and more is deciding whether to value bet the river in multiway pots (OOP or IP, with at least 3 opponents). Game dynamics is usually loose passive, sometimes loose aggressive. TPTK, TP with decent kicker, and even TP weak kicker im almost always value betting against 2 opponents, even if flush draw hits or an overcard. (i use some discretion, but mostly always) However, I usually find myself in spots, say, QQ in the bb, bet flop bet turn, and on river i have 4 to act after me and a nonflush non straight K falls on the river. Do I check call one bet? Bet out for value? I find myself in this situation all the time; here's another hypothetical:

I have AA, raise from the button, 6 callers; bet flop, bet turn, and ending board looks like 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Still 5 callers, I figure for some busted straight and flush draws and weaker pairs, so I bet and get raised, call and lose to two pair and take my lumps. Standard?

What if I'm in the blinds now, same board, say 5 to act after me. Still bet out? Or check call? What i'm curious about is do I make more money off the check call? Say, I save money against all the two pairs, flopped straights, lose money on the hands that would've called my bet on the river but not bet themselves, but maybe induce busted draws or weakish pair hands to bet out and get weak calls after them? Say I hold JJ instead of AA; do I still bet the river IP if it gets checked around? Do I c/c the river if Im the BB first to act?

Re: Value betting the river in multiway pots
 

get a copy of " small stakes holdem:winning big with expert play". theres a whole chapter on river play. also "theory of poker" will help you. these questions are much to broad to be answered in a thread without any specefic reads or table play.

Re: Value betting the river in multiway pots
 

While this is a complicated topic that I could write a couple of book chapters about, I can say that in multiway pots it usually a mistake to count on bad players to bluff or bet weak hands. A related idea is that, because people have that tendency to not get aggressive with weak hands, you can sometimes bet a medium-strength hand and fold to a raise, but you should be careful about doing that in a big pot or against an opponent on whom you don't have a read.

Re: Value betting the river in multiway pots
 

Very well said PokerLIProse. How often do we see basd playuers not bet their hadns on the river and just happy with winning any pot? All too often. Value bettign is an area that I have been working on a lot in my game and it is slowly paying off. Opponent dependant off course all the time.

Re: Value betting the river in multiway pots
 

Since limit holdem at it's core is about getting maximum bets when you are ahead and losing the minimum when you are behind but drawing (or folding when you don't have the odds) Value betting especially on the river is very important. I used to not bet with just top pair in multiway pots or if a scary card came even against one opponent on the river but I now realize that these bets when you are ahead are essential to making the maximum you can.

Now against 5 opponents as in your example I'm probably not betting out into that many on the river with one pair. When 4 to the flush or straight come on the river I'm probably not betting with 2 or more opponents but in most cases you need to value bet on the river when you are strongly confident that you have the best hand.

I think this is one of the top ways that most decent players can increase their earn and improve their game.

Re: Value betting the river in multiway pots
 

In loose passive games, betting the river on this board (and *usually* calling a raise) shows a profit. The reasons are: in a big pot, people will call with many weaker hands but will not bet a single pair. Often they will even be scared to raise a two pair so your loss when behind is limited.

Even the worst small stakes player knows a bluff won't work in a pot this big after you've been betting the whole way - so don't go inducing bluffs in monster multiway pots.

Re: Value betting the river in multiway pots
 

Any little edge in this game is good for us.