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-   -   who does tOSU play in the title game? (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=559018)

MyTurn2Raise 12-02-2007 12:51 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
ESPNU BCS expert Brad Edwards now projecting that LSU will play in the title game

Edge34 12-02-2007 12:52 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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USC's losses to a healthy Oregon team and Stanford is no worse than Colorado/Texas Tech. Thus, you go back to SOS.

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Nah thats your opinion and very very debatable. USC lost as a 40 point favorite. That's a really really bad loss.

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And the New England Patriots didn't cover against the Eagles either. I know there's some statistical relevance to gambling lines, but I don't see how those really matter in the big picture.

ClarkNasty 12-02-2007 12:52 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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If Hawaii wins their game tonight, they should be in.

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Agreed. As I posted in the other thread, Hawaii has one less loss and a more impressive best victory(Boise St was ranked higher than Michigan) than OSU...why is Ohio St getting the nod?

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Because that's a ridiculously oversimplistic view of strength of schedule, accomplishment, and team strength? How about that OSU crushed most teams all year, while Hawaii had a very hard time with many very weak teams? And that OSU played a much harder (though overall still weak) schedule?

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If you don't think Hawaii has played enough tough teams, then put them in the title game against a tough team. That way, either way we'll know for sure. But if Hawaii doesn't get in, then we could have another Boise St situation where we truly don't know if they were the best team or not. Why would you rather not find out than find out if Hawaii is for real? I could understand your argument if there were many other deserving teams, but theres not so lets give the undefeated team a chance and see what happens. What happened to Boise St last year was a tragedy imo.

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Don't worry Assani, Hawaii is about to get housed by the 8th best team in the Pac 10. You'll know for sure they aren't the best in about 3 hours.

Assani Fisher 12-02-2007 12:53 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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If Hawaii wins their game tonight, they should be in.

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Agreed. As I posted in the other thread, Hawaii has one less loss and a more impressive best victory(Boise St was ranked higher than Michigan) than OSU...why is Ohio St getting the nod?

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Unfortunately for your argument, college football isn't a 1 game season.

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My argument was in response to those who repeatedly say "But thats only because they havn't played anyone" when the fact that Hawaii is undefeated is brought up.

DVaut1 12-02-2007 12:53 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Stanford is no worse than Colorado/Texas Tech

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Sagarin rankings:

Texas Tech - 31
Colorado - 52
Stanford - 82

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Oregon with Dixon - 1

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Does not compute. Do we take USC's loss to Stanford (a pretty bad team) into account or not? USC lost to a team that is much worse than anyone else in the discussion lost to. This is relevant.

barryc83 12-02-2007 12:53 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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USC's losses to a healthy Oregon team and Stanford is no worse than Colorado/Texas Tech. Thus, you go back to SOS.

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Nah thats your opinion and very very debatable. USC lost as a 40 point favorite. That's a really really bad loss.

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And the New England Patriots didn't cover against the Eagles either. I know there's some statistical relevance to gambling lines, but I don't see how those really matter in the big picture.

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I was too lazy to look up the sagarin rating, but I remembered the -40 line.

iggymcfly 12-02-2007 12:53 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
OU beat Missouri by 21 points. Not by 1, not by 3, by 21. And they only lost to Texas Tech because Bradford was out.

If it was just the 2-loss team with the best SOS vs. the best 1-loss team, we'd be looking at Ohio State/Missouri.

Kos13 12-02-2007 12:54 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Stanford is no worse than Colorado/Texas Tech

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Sagarin rankings:

Texas Tech - 31
Colorado - 52
Stanford - 82

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Oregon with Dixon - 1

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Bingo. USC's losses are to a horrible, horrible team on a flukey fade pass, and then to the top team in the nation in a nailbiter.

I can absolutely see the argument for LSU over USC, but I still haven't heard a reasonable argument for OU or OSU over USC/LSU.

Analyst 12-02-2007 12:54 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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What is Stanford's bowl outlook this year?

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Somewhat bleaker than Stanford's Nobel Prize outlook this year.

Assani Fisher 12-02-2007 12:54 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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If Hawaii wins their game tonight, they should be in.

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Why? Why why why why why?

This argument should include three teams: Oklahoma, USC, and LSU. I can't comprehend how other people think there should be any other options besides those three teams.

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The goal of a season should be to declare an undisputed champ. If Hawaii loses the National title game then whatever team they lost to is the rightful national champ. Every other school would have lost including Hawaii. If Hawaii wins that game, then they've just beaten a tough team(in addittion to already beating a pretty good Boise St team) and they deserve it. Either way, I don't see how thats unfair! Whats unfair is what happened to Boise St last year. Do you not agree that Boise St did not get a fair shake last year in that they were undefeated, beat a solid Oklahoma team, and yet never got a shot at a title? That could happen again this year.

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Boise St sucked last year

a few fluke plays in a game where they were soundly outplayed

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LOL

Edge34 12-02-2007 12:54 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Honestly, the only real discussion is LSU or USC.

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If you are considering USC you have to consider Oklahoma.

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No you don't. Before today, here are the Sagarin SOS numbers for those two.

Oklahoma #67
USC #33

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This is irrelevant because neither OU or USC is going, but even considering SOS, USC has a really bad loss (to Stanford) to take into account. OU only has a pedestrian bad loss (to Colorado) to consider.

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OU also lost to Texas Tech, who got beaten by all of Oklahoma State, Missouri, Colorado and Texas.

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Okay? Texas Tech is a borderline top-25 team, and is 22 in Sagarin predictor. Stanford is in the bottom third of Div 1-A.

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I'm just saying, you can't call it a "borderline" bad loss as much when you lost to a team that ALSO lost to them, and 3 others. Maybe just IMO, but I think it makes sense.

FlyWf 12-02-2007 12:55 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Your biggest games of the year have been:

1. Beating an 8-4 team by 11 points
2. Losing to a BCS team
3. ???
4. Beating Columbus High School?

Stick OSU in the SEC, and then let's see how well they do.

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They'd have between 1-3 losses. They went 11-1 against the 56th most difficult schedule. I'm not sure how that's worse than going 10-2 against the 33rd(including a home loss to a 39 point dog).

Nice job on saying some wrong [censored], getting corrected, and barreling on like it didn't happen. You could work in politics.

SuperUberBob 12-02-2007 12:55 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
ESPN BCS guru is saying that since Oklahoma won, LSU will jump over Georgia, Kansas and Virginia Tech to play Ohio State

UPDATE: Edited as to not look like fool.

Analyst 12-02-2007 12:56 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Bingo. USC's losses are to a horrible, horrible team on a flukey fade pass,

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Was that the only play of the game? Perhaps if USC was better then they couldn't be beaten by a flukey fade pass.

SuperUberBob 12-02-2007 12:56 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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WHY IS OKLAHOMA NOT IN THE TITLE GAME? THEY JUST BEAT THE #1 TEAM IN THE NATION. THAT MAKES THEM THE #1 TEAM IN THE NATION!!!!!!!!!

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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STANFORD 4 NC TITLE

Kos13 12-02-2007 12:56 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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OU beat Missouri by 21 points. Not by 1, not by 3, by 21. And they only lost to Texas Tech because Bradford was out.

If it was just the 2-loss team with the best SOS vs. the best 1-loss team, we'd be looking at Ohio State/Missouri.

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This just in: Mizzou has been overrated all year. Just like Kansas. And South Florida. And Cal. And BC. And West Virginia.

You guys need to stop talking about the idiotic human polls like they mean anything.

D104 12-02-2007 12:57 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
Ugh. I didn't know what to root for going into the day b/c (1) a title game without an SEC or Pac-10 team is LOL and (2) OSU having a shot at the title is also LOL.

I guess LSU gets the shot, and will destroy OSU in basically a repeat of last years title game lesson: The Big-10 is total crap compared to the SEC.

Also, UGA in the title game is way f'ed up. How can a team that didn't even play for their conf. title get a nat'l title shot? WTF? Again, the fact that some conferences have champ. games and others do not is also f'ed up - such a huge advantage for those who don't have the champ. game.

D

PS OSU sucks, and I hate them.

ClarkNasty 12-02-2007 12:58 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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OU beat Missouri by 21 points. Not by 1, not by 3, by 21. And they only lost to Texas Tech because Bradford was out.

If it was just the 2-loss team with the best SOS vs. the best 1-loss team, we'd be looking at Ohio State/Missouri.

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OU lost to TTU in every phase of the game. That game was straight-up domination.

DVaut1 12-02-2007 12:58 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Stanford is no worse than Colorado/Texas Tech

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Sagarin rankings:

Texas Tech - 31
Colorado - 52
Stanford - 82

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Oregon with Dixon - 1

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Bingo. USC's losses are to a horrible, horrible team on a flukey fade pass, and then to the top team in the nation in a nailbiter.

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Wait. But Stanford is not = Colorado/Texas Tech. They're demonstrably worse. I understand why it matters that the game was close and fluky stuff happened, but does Oklahoma get to hand-wave away the 4th quarter of their game against Colorado? They were up 24-10 in the 4th quarter, then some fluky [censored] happened. Do we get to forget about that too, or just when bad stuff happens to USC?

Kos13 12-02-2007 12:58 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Bingo. USC's losses are to a horrible, horrible team on a flukey fade pass,

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Was that the only play of the game? Perhaps if USC was better then they couldn't be beaten by a flukey fade pass.

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This is true. But it's one week, and their QB was basically playing without a finger. Do we really think Stanford would come within 35 points of USC if they played at full health?

Assani Fisher 12-02-2007 12:59 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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If Hawaii wins their game tonight, they should be in.

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Why? Why why why why why?

This argument should include three teams: Oklahoma, USC, and LSU. I can't comprehend how other people think there should be any other options besides those three teams.

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The goal of a season should be to declare an undisputed champ. If Hawaii loses the National title game then whatever team they lost to is the rightful national champ. Every other school would have lost including Hawaii. If Hawaii wins that game, then they've just beaten a tough team(in addittion to already beating a pretty good Boise St team) and they deserve it. Either way, I don't see how thats unfair! Whats unfair is what happened to Boise St last year. Do you not agree that Boise St did not get a fair shake last year in that they were undefeated, beat a solid Oklahoma team, and yet never got a shot at a title? That could happen again this year.

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I'm sorry but this argument is completely idiotic. Hawaii gets the benefit of playing the 3rd softest schedule in the land, and would have NO CHANCE of being anything better than AT BEST 9-3 with a top 30 schedule. AT BEST.

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I just don't get it...

You think Hawaii is just benefitting from a tough schedule. I think they are truly a very good team. I also felt this way about Boise St last year, while I'm not sure of what your views on Boise St were. Now that we disagree here, I don't care about- lets just agree to disagree on this paragraph and not bother debating it. But.....


My solution is to put Hawaii against a top team in the National Title Game. That way we find out if me or you is right.

Your solution is to omit them. That way we may never find out who was right.


HUH????!!! This is what I just don't get- why would you not want to find out how good Hawaii is?

Its a well known fact that going into a season, most teams realize that if they lose one game then theres a chance they may have lost their national title shot. Every team knows this, and this year every team has lost a game(except Hawaii). So no team(except Hawaii) is truly deserving of a title shot and none have a legit beef of being excluded since they knew going in that a loss could mean no title shot.

edited to add: I don't actually think that Hawaii is a top 2 team in the nation. But I'd sure as hell rather find out for sure than to not find out.

Kos13 12-02-2007 01:00 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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but does Oklahoma get to hand-wave away the 4th quarter of their game against Colorado? They were up 24-10, then some fluky [censored] happened. Do we get to forget about that too, or just when bad stuff happens to USC?

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Aren't we already giving OU the same benefit of the doubt that we gave to USC?

Edge34 12-02-2007 01:00 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Bingo. USC's losses are to a horrible, horrible team on a flukey fade pass,

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Was that the only play of the game? Perhaps if USC was better then they couldn't be beaten by a flukey fade pass.

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USC, statistically, dominated Stanford in every aspect of the game. They got their drives killed on interceptions that, honestly, I don't remember. One TD for Stanford was on a return of one of those INTs. I'd say pretty much the entire game was the downside of variance for USC. Their only other loss was to a healthy (meaning, Dixon played) Oregon team that probably would be in the National Title game had he not gone down.

Analyst 12-02-2007 01:00 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Bingo. USC's losses are to a horrible, horrible team on a flukey fade pass,

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Was that the only play of the game? Perhaps if USC was better then they couldn't be beaten by a flukey fade pass.

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This is true. But it's one week, and their QB was basically playing without a finger. Do we really think Stanford would come within 35 points of USC if they played at full health?

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Who knows? After all, Stanford beat Cal today! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Assani Fisher 12-02-2007 01:01 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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If Hawaii wins their game tonight, they should be in.

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Why? Why why why why why?

This argument should include three teams: Oklahoma, USC, and LSU. I can't comprehend how other people think there should be any other options besides those three teams.

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The goal of a season should be to declare an undisputed champ. If Hawaii loses the National title game then whatever team they lost to is the rightful national champ. Every other school would have lost including Hawaii. If Hawaii wins that game, then they've just beaten a tough team(in addittion to already beating a pretty good Boise St team) and they deserve it. Either way, I don't see how thats unfair! Whats unfair is what happened to Boise St last year. Do you not agree that Boise St did not get a fair shake last year in that they were undefeated, beat a solid Oklahoma team, and yet never got a shot at a title? That could happen again this year.

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The goal is to find the best team. I didn't read anything more in your post because you've missed the point of CFB.

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OK. And if Hawaii dominates their bowl game, while a 2 loss Georgia barely throws a hail mary to beat Ohio St, then have we truly found the best team?


And btw, I disagree- the goal is not to find the best team, its to find the team that played the best during the season. Talent alone doesn't win titles, results do.

FlyWf 12-02-2007 01:01 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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I guess LSU gets the shot, and will destroy OSU in basically a repeat of last years title game lesson: The Big-10 is total crap compared to the SEC.


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Yes, a lesson really reinforced by the other bowl game match ups last year.

The Big Ten was the best conference in America as recently as 2005. Stop being stupid. Please.

Assani Fisher 12-02-2007 01:01 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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lol @ Hawaii fanboys. they still have to play tonight. and after all this crap, i wouldnt be shocked in the least if they lose.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I'm a Hawaii fan??

Victor 12-02-2007 01:01 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
assani, im curious what rankings you are using to say boise>mich>anyone osu played

iggymcfly 12-02-2007 01:02 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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OU beat Missouri by 21 points. Not by 1, not by 3, by 21. And they only lost to Texas Tech because Bradford was out.

If it was just the 2-loss team with the best SOS vs. the best 1-loss team, we'd be looking at Ohio State/Missouri.

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This just in: Mizzou has been overrated all year. Just like Kansas. And South Florida. And Cal. And BC. And West Virginia.

You guys need to stop talking about the idiotic human polls like they mean anything.

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Where did I mention the polls? The point is that Missouri went 11-0 this year in games against teams not named Oklahoma including wins over otherwise 11-0 Kansas and otherwise 9-2 Illinois. They were most certainly not "overrated".

Beating them once at a neutral site is a better win than is held by any of the top contenders. Beating them twice including a 3 TD win at a neutral site is much, much better than anything the top contenders have done.

Edge34 12-02-2007 01:03 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
Assani,

Hawaii is getting hosed by the computers. Its possible for LSU to be #1 twice and lose both times, and have pretty much every #2 lose, but because big mainland teams keep ducking them, we will never get a chance to find out how good Hawaii is. I'm not saying they deserve the Title Game, necessarily, but its sad, because this is the overall best Hawaii team since they started getting ink with Timmy Chang lighting everyone up.

Assani Fisher 12-02-2007 01:03 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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Honestly, the only real discussion is LSU or USC.

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How on earth can you put in USC when they lost a home game to the Stanford [censored] Cardinals and then omit Hawaii because they beat a "soft schedule." Seriously that logic is just baffling.

Kos13 12-02-2007 01:03 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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I guess LSU gets the shot, and will destroy OSU in basically a repeat of last years title game lesson: The Big-10 is total crap compared to the SEC.


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Yes, a lesson really reinforced by the other bowl game match ups last year.

The Big Ten was the best conference in America as recently as 2005. Stop being stupid. Please.

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Um, it's 2007, and the Big Ten is awful. That's all that matters.

ArcticKnight 12-02-2007 01:04 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
It should be OSU/LSU and folks should really stop complaining. Nobody got screwed this year. Every team that was in the discussion had at least one chance (sometimes more) to prove themselves worthy, and they blew it.

It is not OSU's or LSU's fault that every potential worthy team caved.

2007 is just not a year with a dominant team or two. Let's just live with the season we had and move along.

Kos13 12-02-2007 01:05 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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OU beat Missouri by 21 points. Not by 1, not by 3, by 21. And they only lost to Texas Tech because Bradford was out.

If it was just the 2-loss team with the best SOS vs. the best 1-loss team, we'd be looking at Ohio State/Missouri.

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This just in: Mizzou has been overrated all year. Just like Kansas. And South Florida. And Cal. And BC. And West Virginia.

You guys need to stop talking about the idiotic human polls like they mean anything.

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Where did I mention the polls? The point is that Missouri went 11-0 this year in games against teams not named Oklahoma including wins over otherwise 11-0 Kansas and otherwise 9-2 Illinois. They were most certainly not "overrated".

Beating them once at a neutral site is a better win than is held by any of the top contenders. Beating them twice including a 3 TD win at a neutral site is much, much better than anything the top contenders have done.

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The Illini and the Jayhawks both played easy, easy, easy schedules. That makes it easy to have a good record. All you're doing now is rewarding bad conferences and awful schedules.

USC and LSU were #1 and #2 at the start of the season. They played in the toughest conferences in the nation, and nothing has changed. Those are the teams, in whatever order you prefer.

barryc83 12-02-2007 01:05 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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It should be OSU/LSU and folks should really stop complaining. Nobody got screwed this year. Every team that was in the discussion had at least one chance (sometimes more) to prove themselves worthy, and they blew it.

It is not OSU's or LSU's fault that every potential worthy team caved.

2007 is just not a year with a dominant team or two. Let's just live with the season we had and move along.

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Lol, LSU most certainly caved.

pvn 12-02-2007 01:06 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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WHY IS OKLAHOMA NOT IN THE TITLE GAME? THEY JUST BEAT THE #1 TEAM IN THE NATION. THAT MAKES THEM THE #1 TEAM IN THE NATION!!!!!!!!!

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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KENTUCKY VS ARKANSAS 4 ALL DA MARBLES!!!

damaniac 12-02-2007 01:06 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
Looks like we don't have to worry about Hawaii, anyway.

Hornacek 12-02-2007 01:07 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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I guess LSU gets the shot, and will destroy OSU in basically a repeat of last years title game lesson: The Big-10 is total crap compared to the SEC.


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Yes, a lesson really reinforced by the other bowl game match ups last year.

The Big Ten was the best conference in America as recently as 2005. Stop being stupid. Please.

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on top of that, do I have to remind you SEC fanboys that the Big 10 is like 10-6 in the last 5 years in bowls vs the SEC? Everyone is beating on the Big 10 after being down for the past one year exactly. Remember before the bowls last year the Big Ten was still the strongest league before Michigan and Ohio State didn't cover...

pwnsall 12-02-2007 01:07 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
So do people think that if Illinois beat Iowa, OSU should automatically be disqualified?

Also looking at computer rankings Va Tech looks like it will have the best of the teams which are beaing discussed, definitely better than LSU's.

Assani Fisher 12-02-2007 01:07 AM

Re: who does tOSU play in the title game?
 
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assani, im curious what rankings you are using to say boise>mich>anyone osu played

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I went to Yahoo and looked at the team's schedules and then looked at the little numbers next to the teams they played. Yes I realize that is their rank at the time they played, and I realize that I should've noted that in my post....I was wrong.


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