Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

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As for the scientist's comments, he was making a very valid claim that maybe African policies will fail if we assume they have the same intellectual capital as the West. Regardless of the reasons, it is a FACT that the current generation and those before score terribly on IQ tests - which is strongly correlated with things like academic achievement and success in professions. Whatever the reasons, this huge IQ divide will significantly affect their ability to undertake Western style economics, innovation and governance. Do you disagree with this?? Does anyone disagree with this? If so, on what grounds?


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This is actually a decent point that might get ignored. Unfortunately this doesn't mean that we are any closer to understanding why this divide exists and if there is anything we can do about it.

On a side note, do you have any thoughts on the Stereotype Threat that I mentioned earlier?

Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

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.....because knowing the truth will help change policies to what they should be .

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Do you fully understand the meaning and implications of this statement and all the ramifications? You open a Pandora’s box of everything from utopia seekers to the puerile ideas of the Grand Wizards of the KKK. Not to mention how impractical it all is, just because you "know the truth" does not in anyway mean that out of that workable or realistic policies can be woven or even implemented. It is perhaps somewhat better than blind ignorance but any cursory knowledge of politics and history will show humans have a predilection for pursuing idealistic and idiotic policies despite knowing quite a bit of ‘truth” about themselves and their environment.

Besides, just think what NotReady would do with such a statement.

To put it more succinctly: Just because you know truth X does mean policy Y to solve Z, which may seem the correct thing to implement, will in any measure be workable, practical, useful, or even solve problem Z or make Z better. Perhaps it may but perhaps not and perhaps it will be worse...and so round and round we go on the Ferris Wheel.

-Zeno

Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

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Same thing with his comment about aborting homosexuals. It implies that a homosexual life is not worth as much as that of a heterosexual.



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I don't know what his statement was. If it was along the lines of "Women should be allowed to abort a fetus that has a high likelihood to become a homosexual." what is wrong with this statement? Who should determine for what reasons a woman can choose to have an abortion, unless you think abortion should be banned outright. If a woman finds out that her fetus will be born blind and deaf would you support her right to have an abortion even if her reasons are purely selfish ones?

Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

Richard Dawkins wrote a letter to The Independent on the misrepresentation of what Watson said about homosexuality and abortion.

A snippet:
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A woman might passionately desire a homosexual child and elect to abort a foetus with heterosexual genes. Indeed, I have not the slightest doubt that Dr Watson would be happy to add heterosexuality to his list of hypothetical reasons for aborting.

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Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

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He might be simply having fun, but he's a jerk. A bigotted one.

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Agreed, he's a huge jerk. Although oddly enough he can do it with a nice old man smile on his face the entire time. I've never seen him be anything but in a jocular mood.

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You and Lestat are missing an important point. It's one thing to say blacks are superior athletes. It's not a negative. To say they're stupid genetically, as anyone who has had one as an employee must surely know, is an inflammatory statement in a country where blacks have historically been treated badly.

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I agree that his employer comment is inflammatory. Reporters like to misquote Watson and Watson isn't the most articulate person on the planet. So who knows. When it comes to Watson (or even climate change) I generally won't trust an interview unless I hear the entire recording of the interview. Maybe his comment is based upon the very real phenomenon that a lot of minorities wouldn't be where they are at without affirmative action. That can be just as inflammatory. As much as people may dislike it that is a very real fact, albeit not a good metric due to confounding factors. And as much as I dislike it, I am willing to admit white people are *in general* dumber than Asians when it comes things like math. However, that does not mean that the best mathematicians are Asian. Both averages and distributions have to be analyzed.

In other words, different talents for different folks. And that includes black people (for better or worse).

I agree Watson is a prick. I believe in all probability he's just screwing with the reporters (and the publics) mind with this interview. I also feel that the man should be ignored. That being said there is something odd about this interview and I have a difficult time seeing Watson act maliciously when it comes to race. I generally dislike the man but I just can't picture him supporting KKK or neo-nazi propaganda.

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Same thing with his comment about aborting homosexuals. It implies that a homosexual life is not worth as much as that of a heterosexual.

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From a Darwinian point of view, this is a fact. But that was not the point of his statement. His statement was that people could abort either homosexual or heterosexual fetuses. Only half of his statement typically gets reported. In my lifetime the issue of genetic abortion will become a hot topic. Be it for sexuality or something as simple as eye color. Heck it's already a hot topic in some circles.

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BTW, what "type" supports genocide? Is it the "type" who believes homosexuals and blacks are inferior to heterosexuals and whites?

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If they believe a minority is inferior overall? Probably. That is a statement of ignorance.

If they believe any sub species is inferior in a few select attributes? Probably not, that's a fact of life. Any scientist worth his salt will agree with this.

I'd just like to restate that Watson is a troll, albeit a brilliant research manager, and should be ignored. At this point he is being a burden to society and causing more harm than good. I also believe a great deal of this harm is unnecessarily coming his tactless banter and his penchant for shocking those around him. It's just fodder for reporters. Even if he has something extremely valuable to say Watson will require a friend to translate it properly. In real life the man is so old it looks like parts of his body could fall off at any moment. Even for a geriatric, the man just does not look healthy. I have little doubt his health (and bachelorhood) is playing a role in his desire for attention.

Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

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As for the scientist's comments, he was making a very valid claim that maybe African policies will fail if we assume they have the same intellectual capital as the West. Regardless of the reasons, it is a FACT that the current generation and those before score terribly on IQ tests - which is strongly correlated with things like academic achievement and success in professions. Whatever the reasons, this huge IQ divide will significantly affect their ability to undertake Western style economics, innovation and governance. Do you disagree with this?? Does anyone disagree with this? If so, on what grounds?

It makes me sick that these important questions are swept under the rug by supposedly learned men. Operating under faulty assumptions such as those outlined by the scientist will affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people. The true non-racists will favor truth over political correctness, because knowing the truth will help change policies to what they should be . The closet racists and the brain dead losers who can't think for themselves will yell RACIST! as loudly as they can, and harm the people they're pretending to help.

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Just so.

In America we are in a perpetual state of self-flagellation because the black educational outcome is well behind that of whites. We must be racists for this difference to occur, so sez the guilty liberal whites.

I think it's high time for Occam's Razor. To believe the self-loathing white's explaination of the black/white IQ difference requires a 10 step (pretzel)logical house of cards. The simplist explaination did not elude the previous generations here in America. Even Lincoln did not believe blacks would be able to compete on an equal intellectual footing.

Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

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The true non-racists will favor truth over political correctness, because knowing the truth will help change policies to what they should be.

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I'm not in favor of dismissing such science as racist. But I do question the use of it. You say this should help change policies? There is enough overlap in variation between races that race specific educational policies would be a terrible idea IMO.

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3. Social policies are based on the assumption that intellectual capital is the same between races. This is a dangerous assumption when trying to fix something that's not working - you end up blaming the wrong reasons.

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E.g.?

Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

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.....because knowing the truth will help change policies to what they should be .

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Do you fully understand the meaning and implications of this statement and all the ramifications? You open a Pandora’s box of everything from utopia seekers to the puerile ideas of the Grand Wizards of the KKK. Not to mention how impractical it all is, just because you "know the truth" does not in anyway mean that out of that workable or realistic policies can be woven or even implemented. It is perhaps somewhat better than blind ignorance but any cursory knowledge of politics and history will show humans have a predilection for pursuing idealistic and idiotic policies despite knowing quite a bit of ‘truth” about themselves and their environment.

Besides, just think what NotReady would do with such a statement.

To put it more succinctly: Just because you know truth X does mean policy Y to solve Z, which may seem the correct thing to implement, will in any measure be workable, practical, useful, or even solve problem Z or make Z better. Perhaps it may but perhaps not and perhaps it will be worse...and so round and round we go on the Ferris Wheel.

-Zeno

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I have the gut feeling that a great libertarian/jeffersonian style book can be written about the basic concepts outlined within this post. If one hasn't already been written... I also have the feeling that you would be a pretty good choice for an author Zeno.

Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

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You are badly misstating the general opinion of psychologists IMO. I did some serious reading on this topic and even the American Psychological Association has stated that IQ tests measure g quite accurately, and the differences between cultural groups can not be attributed to cultural biases (between all of their apologetics, of course)

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Ofcourse it measures G accurately, but it's the validity of G that is the centre of the debate - not the tests.

And trust me, that is a common discussion in psychology - 'ok we measured it, but what did we just measure?', and its an important one.

Re: Nobel Prize scientist - Black people are dumb
 

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You open a Pandora’s box of everything from utopia seekers to the puerile ideas of the Grand Wizards of the KKK.

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Couldn't people point out to the wizards that they are still dumber than asians?