Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

so pap will have one more year before arb right? i would expect if he stays healthy they try to avoid arb with him, that's fairly typical for them. for some reason i thought he was going to arb this year.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

teams avoid arb by just signing one year deals every year. grady sizemore type deals where u sign a guy for 6 years after his rookie year or whatever are pretty uncommon

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

Let Schilling go. He's not worth it for his age and what he has left.

Don't trade Manny. Its amazing how underappreciated he is and how underrated he is defensively.

Sign Lowell. Give him 4 or 5 years if he wants.

As much as I love Coco's defense, Jacoby's got to play everyday. If Coco can handle being 4th OF, great.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let Schilling go. He's not worth it for his age and what he has left.

Don't trade Manny. Its amazing how underappreciated he is and how underrated he is defensively.

Sign Lowell. Give him 4 or 5 years if he wants.

As much as I love Coco's defense, Jacoby's got to play everyday. If Coco can handle being 4th OF, great.

[/ QUOTE ]
gimmick account?

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

like i said, some people are pretty silly

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

This is also important offseason business.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...63216_3360.jpg

You can watch lots of video at www.boston.com

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

[ QUOTE ]
like i said, some people are pretty silly

[/ QUOTE ]

Have any problems with above?

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

I think the most interesting thing here is the Coco/Ellsbury situation.

Ellsbury could probably command tons of trade value, especially from a small market team who loves young, cheap players like Minnesota or Florida. He has a pretty big upside, but probably not nearly as big as the hype he's generated over the last week. His trade value will never be higher than it is now.

Coco, on the other hand, is a cheap gold glove quality CF who won't command much trade value. He's a lot like Ellsbury without the shine. Getting rid of him won't get anything in return.

As somebody already mentioned, trading Ellsbury could be a PR nightmare. But if he could help land a Johan Santana or Miguel Cabrera, it's probably worth it. Playing them both in the same OF seems horrible. So does starting Ellsbury and benching Coco. Starting Coco and getting Ellsbury in there occasionally makes a lot of sense, but maybe they feel like Ellsbury has already done enough to earn a starting job.

I'm curious to see how this all plays out.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

It's Ellsbury's job to lose. I mean come on, Ellsbury was the starter in the World Series. How do you start the WS and then go into Spring Training as the backup to Crisp. Crisp's fate is sealed. Ellsbury is the starter in CF next season.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
like i said, some people are pretty silly

[/ QUOTE ]

Have any problems with above?

[/ QUOTE ]

other than that every opinion in it is wrong, no.

if you want further explanation see my post above.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

[ QUOTE ]

Ellsbury could probably command tons of trade value, especially from a small market team who loves young, cheap players like Minnesota or Florida. He has a pretty big upside, but probably not nearly as big as the hype he's generated over the last week. His trade value will never be higher than it is now.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the thing. yes he has game-changing speed and is super-exciting and a 'sparkplug' and all that. but nothing he has done prior to this year would indicate he's going to put up a 1+ OPS like he did over a small sample size this season. before he got called up most people were thinking of his CEILING as an OBP-heavy .820 or so OPS with great speed and plus defense in CF. that's really good, but if you can find a team that will buy into the hype it's totally fine to trade him for someone like santana or miggy, especially when you already have a pretty good, relatively cheap CF in crisp.

i think the backlash would be sick for an ellsbury trade UNLESS we got one of basically three or four established superstars, like johan, miggy, etc. then people would grumble but they'd get over it when they see 3/5ths of our rotation in the all star game.

if the sox got cabrera i assume he'd move to 1B. that would give us the best 3-4-5 in the known universe if manny has one more healthy season in him. (assuming he didn't also get moved).

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

Anyone who bitched about a trade of a package involving Jacoby for Jonasty should have their RSN card revoked.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
like i said, some people are pretty silly

[/ QUOTE ]

Have any problems with above?

[/ QUOTE ]

other than that every opinion in it is wrong, no.

if you want further explanation see my post above.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. I shouldn't even bother.
You think they should keep KS? I'm willing to bet next year his E.R.A. won't be under 4.50. He's shot.

Wait, I decided to read your post above (I hadn't before) and it seems we agree on Schill.

Also seems we agree on Lowell
Also the center field situation (mostly)
I guess we disagree on Manny. Thank God we had him the last 5 years. I don't think we win w/out him. He still has 3 Manny years left. Other than that I don't know what you misinterpreted

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

[ QUOTE ]
You think they should keep KS? I'm willing to bet next year his E.R.A. won't be under 4.50. He's shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, it's CS.

All he wants is ONE more season. That's it. Not just from the Sox, from anyone. Yeah, we'd be overpaying for him, but having someone like Schill we can roll out for 120 innings would be a big advantage.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

We all agree that if Schill will sign a one year deal for 11-13ish then we should absolutely keep him, right?

Problem is the same as it is with Mikey, though. A starved NL team will probably give him too many years and too much money and we won't be able to compete for him.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who bitched about a trade of a package involving Jacoby for Jonasty should have their RSN card revoked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting Santana for Ellsbury and change would be awesome, and I loooooove Ellsbury.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

Those that are talikng about trading for Santana - that's fine, but the price will be a hell of a lot more than just Ellsbury.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Those that are talikng about trading for Santana - that's fine, but the price will be a hell of a lot more than just Ellsbury.

[/ QUOTE ]

Santana is in the last year of his contract, no?

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Those that are talikng about trading for Santana - that's fine, but the price will be a hell of a lot more than just Ellsbury.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes it will. i don't have a clear idea of how much we should really give up for santana, but i think it's a lot. i would draw the line at giving up both ellsbury and buchholz. i would rather give up ellsbury than buchholz.

if i am theo i would start with a crisp / lowrie / pitching type package and see if it could be done without losing ellsbury. but i would expect the twins would want more.

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

Schilling story on ESPN.com


"A one-year deal is all I'm looking for," Schilling said, adding that he expected to file for free agency over the next few days

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

SOSH link lots rally pics

Re: ***World Champion Red Sox Offseason Thread***
 

IMO i still think Santana is a good pitcher but Redsox Management should not give up the farm for him. His numbers are for sure on the decline and i wouldnt trust him to be worth the $ he will be asking for in an extension. This year ERA,walks, whip and BAA were all up and K's, IP, and wins were all down. Hell out of his 15 wins only 5 were against quality opponents and he shouldnt have lost to Cleveland 5 times. Just my opinion but i think its crazy to mortgage the future for him.

For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

It's certainly going to be a very interesting off-season.

The Sox front office has many decisions to make, but they are the result of mostly "good" situations, not "problems".

Although highly unlikely, there is a possibility that the cards could fall in a way that we are looking at the following 25 man roster for the Sox in 2008.

What do you think?

Starting Lineup

LF- Ellsbury
2b – Pedroia
DH- Ortiz
SS – A-Rod
3b – Lowell
RF – Drew
1B – Youkilis
C – Varitek
CF – Crisp

Starting Pitchers

1 - Beckett
2 - Matsuzaka
3 – Lester
4 – Bucholtz
5a – Schilling
5b – Wakefield

Bullpen

Papelbon
Okajima
DelCarmen
Timlin
Tavares
Hansack

Bench

Hinske
Kielty
Cora
Mirabelli

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]

1 - Beckett
2 - Matsuzaka
3 – Lester
4 – Bucholtz
5a – Schilling
5b – Wakefield

[/ QUOTE ]
lol @ putting lester #3 there

lester has run like god in his major league career. with average luck his major league ERA is in the 5.50 range and nobody thinks hes a big deal.

scouts like him and hes recovering from cancer so maybe he takes a big step forward next year, but he shouldn't be getting any starts next april unless lots of people are hurt or he shows a lot of progress in ST

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]

What do you think?

Starting Lineup

LF- Ellsbury
2b – Pedroia
DH- Ortiz
SS – A-Rod
3b – Lowell
RF – Drew
1B – Youkilis
C – Varitek
CF – Crisp


[/ QUOTE ]

I think Manny Ramirez should still be in the lineup. He's kinda good.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1 - Beckett
2 - Matsuzaka
3 – Lester
4 – Bucholtz
5a – Schilling
5b – Wakefield

[/ QUOTE ]
lol @ putting lester #3 there

lester has run like god in his major league career. with average luck his major league ERA is in the 5.50 range and nobody thinks hes a big deal.

scouts like him and hes recovering from cancer so maybe he takes a big step forward next year, but he shouldn't be getting any starts next april unless lots of people are hurt or he shows a lot of progress in ST

[/ QUOTE ]
From all your posts in this thread you either hate the sox, or a pessimist.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

he's sort of pessimistic and I don't agree with him on some things (he's clearly jealous of Timlin), but I think he's right on here. Lester's got plenty of potential as a 23 year old, but he's run sick good. His K/9 is decent enough, but nothing special, and his K:BB and WHIP stats are very mediocre.

Lester's a nice piece to have, but he's definitely not our 3rd starter.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1 - Beckett
2 - Matsuzaka
3 – Lester
4 – Bucholtz
5a – Schilling
5b – Wakefield

[/ QUOTE ]
lol @ putting lester #3 there

lester has run like god in his major league career. with average luck his major league ERA is in the 5.50 range and nobody thinks hes a big deal.

scouts like him and hes recovering from cancer so maybe he takes a big step forward next year, but he shouldn't be getting any starts next april unless lots of people are hurt or he shows a lot of progress in ST

[/ QUOTE ]
From all your posts in this thread you either hate the sox, or a pessimist.

[/ QUOTE ]
i was one of like two people here who were optimistic when the sox were hemermagoagianghging games in the standings to the yankees late in the year

i also think the sox will prob be the favorites to win it all next year

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

If they can get anything or Crisp (or turn Ellsbury into Santana somehow) I wouldn't mind seeing Kielty back as the 4th OF. (I thought this before his HR if thats believable.)

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

Informative thread. Good read. I will keep up on it.

I'm not a Sox fans (Cards all the way!), but I really wish I was. You guys are in excellent shape. When you have problems like "what are we going to do with Crisp?" that should let you know what kind of condition your franchise is in.

Anyhow, congrats on the WS win.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

I like the Ortiz at 1B, Manny at DH, Youk at 3rd, Ellsbury/Crisp/Drew OF that Silver threw out today.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
Informative thread. Good read. I will keep up on it.

I'm not a Sox fans (Cards all the way!), but I really wish I was. You guys are in excellent shape. When you have problems like "what are we going to do with Crisp?" that should let you know what kind of condition your franchise is in.

Anyhow, congrats on the WS win.

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO!!!!

Tough problem to have, eh?

Yes, we are truly fortunate.

I threw out the roster as an exercise for thought.

There are ways to get there if one thinks about it.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like the Ortiz at 1B, Manny at DH, Youk at 3rd, Ellsbury/Crisp/Drew OF that Silver threw out today.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh. I'll let others elaborate...

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What do you think?

Starting Lineup

LF- Ellsbury
2b – Pedroia
DH- Ortiz
SS – A-Rod
3b – Lowell
RF – Drew
1B – Youkilis
C – Varitek
CF – Crisp


[/ QUOTE ]

I think Manny Ramirez should still be in the lineup. He's kinda good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dynasty,

He's absent in this lineup because he's no longer a Red Sox, which enables them to afford A-Rod.

Now, before folks start excoriating me for including A-Rod in any potential Sox lineup, let me say that it scares the hell out of me as I've always been concerned with his detached aloofness and his movement history screams out that when he leaves a team it gets better.

Be that as it may, should he find his way to the Sox it might be akin to Randy Moss finding his way to the Pats.....i.e. the peer pressure for him to get with it would be so strong (Papi, Varitek, Wakefield, Schilling, etc.) that it would have a significantly positive effect on his attitude.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like the Ortiz at 1B, Manny at DH, Youk at 3rd, Ellsbury/Crisp/Drew OF that Silver threw out today.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd like it too, not sure how papi would feel about it though. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

I actually thought of the same thing Vyse did, but you probably see Ortiz's numbers dip a bit, and Manny being the Manny we don't like because he wants to play the field. It's too drastic a change so it'll never happen, but it's not the craziest thing ever if we find ourselves with only Youk to fill both the 3B and 1B slots.

Probably the worst thing about it is the decrease in value of Ellsbury in LF.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1 - Beckett
2 - Matsuzaka
3 – Lester
4 – Bucholtz
5a – Schilling
5b – Wakefield

[/ QUOTE ]
lol @ putting lester #3 there

lester has run like god in his major league career. with average luck his major league ERA is in the 5.50 range and nobody thinks hes a big deal.

scouts like him and hes recovering from cancer so maybe he takes a big step forward next year, but he shouldn't be getting any starts next april unless lots of people are hurt or he shows a lot of progress in ST

[/ QUOTE ]

You can lol all that you'd like, but the kid had loads of plus qualities before cancer struck.

It appears that he's gotten past the disease, which is a HUGE accomplishment, and has come out even stronger psychologically than anyone had any reason to expect.

I see no reason why he can't get his fastball back up in the 95-96 range (which is where he sometimes was before his illness). If that happens, along with his other pitches and the fact that he is a lefty, he could be very special.

I know that there's a lot of "ifs" involved, but there are more reasons, IMO, to lean to the positive than the negative in this case.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
He's absent in this lineup because he's no longer a Red Sox, which enables them to afford A-Rod.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nate Silver, in the same article referenced above, had a very good point about A-Rod. Boston doesn't need him. Even if they don't resign Lowell (which I am thinking they might), do you really want BOS to sign him for 10 years and 300M? It will be good for a few years, but he isn't going to bring more people to the games and BOS should be competing for a while anyways.

craig

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I think Manny Ramirez should still be in the lineup. He's kinda good.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's absent in this lineup because he's no longer a Red Sox, which enables them to afford A-Rod.


[/ QUOTE ]

Did he die in a car accident? Based on your roster, it doesn't seem you got much for him in a trade.

Re: For Dissection....2008 Red Sox Roster........
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's absent in this lineup because he's no longer a Red Sox, which enables them to afford A-Rod.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nate Silver, in the same article referenced above, had a very good point about A-Rod. Boston doesn't need him. Even if they don't resign Lowell (which I am thinking they might), do you really want BOS to sign him for 10 years and 300M? It will be good for a few years, but he isn't going to bring more people to the games and BOS should be competing for a while anyways.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear ya loud and clear and I'm very conflicted (as I noted above) surrounding the potential for that to happen.

That's why I threw the thought out.....to see what other's think of both the viability and probability of this scenario.