HU vs unknown
 

Does everyone peel flop and turn here HU? is the river a reraise for value?

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (2 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ?
Final Pot: 11.60 BB

Re: HU vs unknown
 

i know flop peel is normal, on turn lets say there are 3 10's, 3 A's and 4 5's. Probably not all outs, i'd say an avg of about 6 outs are good. On turn i am getting 5:1 and i think i have the implied odds tho if i hit the river. Ace high can also be good here as well.

when i get to river, reraise for value?

Re: HU vs unknown
 

I play the same and raise the river

Re: HU vs unknown
 

Depends on what you've been doing. A river raise should be for value but also to protect bluffs. I'd usually raise and get 3-bet by A5 and then cry bloody tears about the $40/100 the rake is taking at HU.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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I play the same and raise the river

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u are a shark also, good to kno that u like the line. I think ace high is good some times here also so i dont think 6 outs on avg is normal, i think i have some more cuz ace high can be good, maybe 8-10?

Re: HU vs unknown
 

actually lied, I responded to quick becaus eI'm playing at work while browsing 2+2. I just call the river because of the straight

Re: HU vs unknown
 

yea but zomg, how often is a 5 really in his range here? not often at all

Re: HU vs unknown
 

I had just written some crap until I saw it was HU. You gotta have some kind of read. Is he 3-betting lightly? Value betting much? Folding much or calling down? What's your image?
What I'm trying to say is that these HU matches depends soooo much on the flow of the game and how you perceive eachother. Often it's difficult for outsiders to say anything interesting.

But as a general rule I 2-time his ass in this spot. You'll get looked up by lots of pp's and 9x. Against some opponents I can fold to a 3-bet but I'd also call against some.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

fwiw I think the two peels are standard against almost all opponents.

EDIT: And you can't reraise river. You can raise, though.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

I think the peels are standard unless you've got some sort of sick read on the guy.

I agree that 5's arent is range evre unless its 55, but he did just fire at every street. You'd have to PS it. River raise depends a lot on any sort of read, is he willing to 3barrel here with KQ? What is he gogn to call a river raise with? TT-KK? 9x? 66-88? Most players know that the A hit most of your range

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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I had just written some crap until I saw it was HU. You gotta have some kind of read. Is he 3-betting lightly? Value betting much? Folding much or calling down? What's your image?
What I'm trying to say is that these HU matches depends soooo much on the flow of the game and how you perceive eachother. Often it's difficult for outsiders to say anything interesting.

But as a general rule I 2-time his ass in this spot. You'll get looked up by lots of pp's and 9x. Against some opponents I can fold to a 3-bet but I'd also call against some.

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2nd hand of HU, so no reads at all, what are we thinking if the river blanks? most still call here?

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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I think the peels are standard unless you've got some sort of sick read on the guy.

I agree that 5's arent is range evre unless its 55, but he did just fire at every street. You'd have to PS it. River raise depends a lot on any sort of read, is he willing to 3barrel here with KQ? What is he gogn to call a river raise with? TT-KK? 9x? 66-88? Most players know that the A hit most of your range

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again, absolutely no reads which makes this hand appliable to everyone cuz its a general spot lots run in to.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

I would just call vs an unknown. Id really only raise against an aggrotard who just barrels w/o thinking. Any opponent with a functioning brain realizes that your range is heavily weighted towards A-high hands. Decent opponents will take a b/f line w/ underpairs sometimes so the only value i get out of raising is against the worst of the worst.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

define blank? I call because I'm a unblufable station and if I think I'm going to playing this guy for more than acouple hands I want to know what he's going to 3 barrel OOP. I wouldnt expect to win often but HU I like to try and get a read on what line an opponent is goign to take as quickly as I can. Beware though, I blow at HU :-D

Re: HU vs unknown
 

Against a total unknown I'll call a blank river. I think I raise river and probably call a 3-bet in this situation (expecting to lose - I just wanna see his hand + many people make retarted river raises). I wanna show down either way so I can get some information. That's what HU is about most of the way.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

You need to raise the river for value and i dont think you can fold to a 3 bet. HU is an information saturated environment and you need to have an idea about how he is playing so you can make better decissions later in the match. Calldown lighter in the start of a huhu match so you can adjust a lot more to how your opponent is playing. He could be valuebetting AX, 9x, 4x, pocketpair and bluff the scarecard with a FD. I think i would cap for value PF and the posibility to bet/3 bet a good flop.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

People saying that he knows that ur range is weighted towards A-high: 1) For this reason the ace is a perfect bluff card and our opponent probably knows that and calls with more than you think. 2) Hero could easily have 3x or 4x on the river, hence villains valuebet in spite of the scary ace.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

yea he doesnt even have enough to make a full 3 bet, so consense reraise river for value. And call if it was a blank?

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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You need to raise the river for value and i dont think you can fold to a 3 bet. HU is an information saturated environment and you need to have an idea about how he is playing so you can make better decissions later in the match. Calldown lighter in the start of a huhu match so you can adjust a lot more to how your opponent is playing. He could be valuebetting AX, 9x, 4x, pocketpair and bluff the scarecard with a FD. I think i would cap for value PF and the posibility to bet/3 bet a good flop.

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Good post. And I cap preflop too now that I think of it.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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You need to raise the river for value and i dont think you can fold to a 3 bet. HU is an information saturated environment and you need to have an idea about how he is playing so you can make better decissions later in the match.

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Is the best play really to make getting this information more expenive to start the match? Villian has to know the A hit OP's range hard. I want to see what he plays that agressively and dont think we're good enough here to warrent a raise. We're basically [censored] if three bet, and probably called, but still cant fold

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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yea he doesnt even have enough to make a full 3 bet, so consense reraise river for value. And call if it was a blank?

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This make it an even clearer raise I think. And yeah, call that river. I expect you to be good a reasonable amount of the time + you get very valuable information.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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You need to raise the river for value and i dont think you can fold to a 3 bet. HU is an information saturated environment and you need to have an idea about how he is playing so you can make better decissions later in the match.

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Is the best play really to make getting this information more expenive to start the match? Villian has to know the A hit OP's range hard. I want to see what he plays that agressively and dont think we're good enough here to warrent a raise. We're basically [censored] if three bet, and probably called, but still cant fold

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*NOTE: see his stack size also, if i win this hand he is broke and the match will be over.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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yea he doesnt even have enough to make a full 3 bet, so consense reraise river for value.

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Wow :-D huge peice of information to leave out. He'sgoing to be stacking off a huge time here, I just get all the money in the pot as soon as possible. If he's that short Cap PF and definately raise the river

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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yea he doesnt even have enough to make a full 3 bet, so consense reraise river for value. And call if it was a blank?

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yes you could be facing an opponent who 3 barrels broadways / fd without thinking...

EDIT: didnt see stack size.. then you have to reraise / call

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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yea he doesnt even have enough to make a full 3 bet, so consense reraise river for value.

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Wow :-D huge peice of information to leave out. He'sgoing to be stacking off a huge time here, I just get all the money in the pot as soon as possible. If he's that short Cap PF and definately raise the river

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Lol of course raise if he has &lt;2bbs.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

yea that means he's a super fishy usually IMO sitting in so shortstacked

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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Lol of course raise if he has &lt;2bbs.

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exactly. the whole hand is trivial with his stack size.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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Lol of course raise if he has &lt;2bbs.

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exactly. the whole hand is trivial with his stack size.

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everyone seemed to overlook it, i wouldnt say trivial my buddy cuz he can still be a decent player

if he is 3 bet shoving here alot cuz of it then it could change our decision, i dont think it changes the hand too much

Re: HU vs unknown
 

No one overlooked it. It doesnt say anything in your OP about stack size

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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No one overlooked it. It doesnt say anything in your OP about stack size

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wow very sorry, thought i had stack sizes clicked, i assumed they were there. I still think the hand analysis is almost the same as a full stack though. Just slightly differently.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

The hand does become trivial against an opponent this small because you should have capped Pf, the flop and turn are completly standard, and on the river he would have between 1.5 and 2.5 meaning there is no worry about a 3 bet and he is going to call with bascially anything.

this hand basically autoplays itself

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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I still think the hand analysis is almost the same as a full stack though. Just slightly differently.

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I disagree completly. I'm never folding A high here. people this low are going to barrel off with anything and arent folding anything on the river. It takes away any worry about a river 3bet, and should get all his chips in the pot no matter what you do.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

I think you should cap this pf most of time for value, fe and also to be able to bet/3 bet for example a 1086r or twotone flop where your opponent does not think you have tx in your range and will c/r and call down with any pair and any fd/sd until river even though your range is weighed towards an overpair.

But i am a noob at HUHU so this is just my basic thinking about it.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

There definitely value on in just calling PF, no? Especially if villain will 3-barrel lots and calls lots post.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

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There definitely value on in just calling PF, no? Especially if villain will 3-barrel lots and calls lots post.

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If he had more chips probably. If he's this low and wants to stack I think we just want to get all the chips in as quickly as possible

Re: HU vs unknown
 

alright guys, seemed like a good hand to talk about, thanks for all the input

Re: HU vs unknown
 

Definitely raising the river here. A lot of pocket pairs, weaker aces and 9x's will probably pay you off.

If you ran into a wheel, chalk it up to bad luck.

Re: HU vs unknown
 

ugh, haven't read through the whole thread, but please take this guy to 4 town preflop next time. Life will be so much easier