Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

CAZ 40. This pot is 6-handed due to walkers w/ a half-kill in action. Villain is a steady, solid pro player who won't get fancy on me but he is stuck and seems a bit affected by it.

I raise UTG w/ A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Villain 3-bets, the rest fold and I call. He either had a pair, say, 77+ or a strong Ace and I have no idea which it is.

Flop:

A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and 2 baby[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]s.

Turn:

Another baby[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

River: blank.

The header says it all. I had no idea if I was winning or losing at any point in the hand and villain bet every street. Horrible? Let him hang himself w/ an underpair trying to move me off my hand? Toss in a raise somewhere? Just call and pray like I did?

This hand froze me. I thinks it's tough to give advice for a situation like this w/o knowing villain fairly well but opinions are very welcome.

Re: Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

yes you should hate yourself. PF is a fold, if you choose to play it then you need to be raising flop.

Re: Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

Why would PF be a fold? AJo... 6 handed?

And i agree you should put in some action on the flop. I would probably C/R the flop and see what he does, but maybe a better line would be to bet/call and then lead the turn?

Oh and my advice doesnt matter really anyway; i just noticed we have a foul deck. Call for a setup.

Re: Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

Maybe you could tell us your plan for the rest of the hand after you CR the flop. What are you hoping to acclomplish?

BTW, nice meeting you last night. Congrats on the solid score.

Re: Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

[ QUOTE ]
yes you should hate yourself. PF is a fold, if you choose to play it then you need to be raising flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Fold AJo in a 6-handed game?

In hands like this, I'd normally check-call the flop and turn for reasons such as the OP describes, especially if villan will fold a smaller pair to a check-raise, then bet out on the river. A lot of people will look you up with a worse hand, hands with which they would check behind. Win the max, lose the min . . .

I think that the flush draw supports checking the turn. If you bet the turn you risk being raised by AcX (X probably is a K-T based on your description). You'll probably never increase your win by betting out on the turn, might jeopardize even winning one more bet if they fold a worse hand that they'd bet with, and could lose three bets if they raise you (and you c-c the river).

If he checks behind on the turn you bet the river, of course.

Re: Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

Preflop raise is totally standard. On the flop you're way ahead or way behind, so it's a bad idea to put in a lot of action. Checkraising the flop sucks because he'll fold a ton of hands that have only 2 outs.

I think you played it fine, and on the river it's a you-are-there-feel-play as to whether you should c/c or c/f, as some live players will never fire a 3rd barrel on the river without AQ+. I would probably check-call.

The old line for this WA/WB situation was c-c, c-c, bet/fold, and I can see some merit for donking the river -- he might pay off with KK/QQ because your line is "weird" to him.

Re: Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

Well played, river has to be close to a check/fold. If you call the river bet its a crying call.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

[ QUOTE ]
yes you should hate yourself. PF is a fold, if you choose to play it then you need to be raising flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make it 12 handed and then maybe its a fold.

Re: Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The old line for this WA/WB situation was c-c, c-c, bet/fold, and I can see some merit for donking the river -- he might pay off with KK/QQ because your line is "weird" to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the line I wanted to take and still what I recommend. I never seem to be able to follow through on it though, because I assume good players will be able to read it for what it is and raise most cards to fold out my TPGK. Assuming no 4 flush/4straight, this board seems to be the case for this.

Anyone have thoughts on this? There are few plays(esp. live) that I can't bring myself to do and the WA/WB OOP line is one of them, because there are very few hands that I c/c the first two streets and then don't fold to a raise if I bet the river. What hands are you bet/calling here? Ax 2 pair river spike? A good player should read that as not being part of your range either.

Edit: I forgot that we raised UTG 6 handed, and that Axs hands are likely within our range. That still doesn't change the fact that our range looks heavily weighted to fold if we bet.

Re: Should I hate myself for c/c\'ing the whole way?
 

Preflop is good, flop and turn are good.

I'm fine c/c the river instead of bet-calling, b/c the range of hands that we beat and call us is very slim here. I prefer to let him bet his unpaired hands as a bluff on the end. Stox talks about the c/c, c/c, bet/fold line, he doesn't do it much for the same reasons, the range is small that villain will call with.