KJ facing turn donk
 

10/20 online 5handed

Hero dealt KJs

1 fold, 1 limp, hero raises, blinds come along and we see flop 4way for 8SB

K86 with 2flush, i have no flush draw

2 checks, big fish bets, I raise, TAG in BB calls two, bettor calls

turn is 4, completing flush

TAG leads out, fish calls... action to me with 9BB in pot

what's my play?

Re: KJ facing turn donk
 

I think you're drawing dead here... the TAG has either the flush or a set. Fold.

Re: KJ facing turn donk
 

I call down. Might be a leak but pot is big and maybe TAG plays Kx like this.

Re: KJ facing turn donk
 

How long did TAG pause before calling two cold? A longer pause could indicate him trying to figure out how to play TPNK there, a fast call obv indicates a draw he can't fold and knows he shouldn't threebet.

Re: KJ facing turn donk
 

Honestly, I'm not sure - was playing too many tables at the time to notice.

Re: KJ facing turn donk
 

I think youre drawing dead here very often. That said, I seldom fold.

Re: KJ facing turn donk
 

Fold or Raise. Most of the time I donk here it's because I don't want the PFR checking the turn through with whatever hand he's giving up on or looking for help with. Which means I'm AHEAD of one pair. He could have any 57 suited here, a small flush, kings up, Ad with a piece, or a set he was going to slowplay until the flush came. I hate his reasoning to bet here with the set as he's "giving his hand away" a lot of the time in my eyes. That being said it should be a fold most of the time since he's giving away that he feels he's ahead and doesn't want the turn being checked thru. If you feel like you can gain value from the idiot calling on the turn with some pair/draw then a raise is decent. You can fold to a 3bet of course and if he just calls you can check behind on the river unimproved, and some people will show you King rag here or a poorly played draw. Calling is almost never good here. The fun thing about limit is YOU DON'T HAVE TO TRY TO WIN EVERY HAND so I will usually let this go at 10/20 and just wait to have the goods and punish EP morons for donking into me.

Re: KJ facing turn donk
 

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A longer pause could indicate him trying to figure out how to play TPNK there

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If villain had TPNK wouldnt this be a decision between raising and folding?

Re: KJ facing turn donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
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A longer pause could indicate him trying to figure out how to play TPNK there

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If villain had TPNK wouldnt this be a decision between raising and folding?

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I think folding is out of the question with TP on the flop in limit (with some rare exeptions). I'd say raise > call and donk turn > fold with TPNK here.

Re: KJ facing turn donk
 

I wonder if TP can still be in his range after that flopcall.

With any marginal made hand, would this be a spot for villain to check/call 2 on the flop intending to represent the flush if it arrives? He knows that big fish will call his turn bet (bluffraise would be even sweeter) and he may think that hero will probably not overcall with TPMKish hands.

At the flop I would put villain on a draw. After he bets into two on the turn (one of them definitely calling) it cant be a bluff. Must be the flush, so I fold. Maybe this is how they outplay me.