4/8 Full Kill Hand
 

I haven't posted here in a long, long time due to an extended hiatus from Hold'em.

I was playing in a live 4/8 game yesterday when the following hand came up.

I positioned myself to the left of a southern California thinking maniac. She was the small blind, I was the big blind. I had Q4s.

The flop came with two hearts (my suit), and a straight already possible. She bet out, I called, we got four overcalls.

The turn brought my flush, she bet. I felt that my best move was to smooth call her, hoping for the overcalls. I didn't raise because of the loose/passive opponents left in the hand. I also felt that given the odd chance that I was beat, I would lose less. If I won the hand, I was hoping to get many overcalls by our passive opponents who were basically playing defense against the maniac and would call down with any piece of the flop.

On the turn, two passive players called her bet. On the river just one.

My first instinct, which was to go for the overcalls, seemed like the best at the time. There were seven big bets to start the hand. After the flop, there were ten. After the turn, fourteen. After the river, seventeen.

She showed J2s for the jack high flush.

Had I played the hand harder on the turn and river, maybe I could have gotten up to 38. But of course I didn't know her hand was that strong. I was focusing more on overcalls by remaining, passive opponents than her, knowing she could have any part of that flop and keep betting out.

Of course, getting 38 bets would have been ideal, in my fantasy land, but had she had the king or ace high, I would have lost a lot more bets as well. Instead of losing only 3.5 big bets had I been beat, I would have lost 9.5.

I was so focused on Ed Miller's "going for overcalls" that I never once put her on that hand. It could have been pretty much anything. She only folded or checked when she had absolutely nothing (no pair, no gutshot, no runner draw, no ace).

Any thoughts on this? TIA,

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 4/8 Full Kill Hand
 

I posted a hand like this not too long ago.

In this case (and most cases with LP players still in a hand on the river) I would raise the river. Since there are only two players left, you are hoping for two overcalls vs one call from the maniac.

Raise River: they might call two cold, maniac will call often, and the LPs could have just been chasing the whole way with nothing.

FWIW: on my hand posted, I got the exact same results, one caller on the river, vs most likely only one call if I had raised...

PS, I might be inclined to raise turn here, since you only have a Q high flush, and the ace or king will probably pay two to draw... but I tend to play my made hands pretty fast

Re: 4/8 Full Kill Hand
 

Felicia,

It's difficult to analyze this completely due to the lack of any board cards. However, I'd say that if the board on the turn did not contain the A or K of hearts, I would have raised, since hands with either of those cards will pay two bets on the turn, but none on the river when no heart falls. In addition, if you're playing with typical loose-passive monkies, they will likely pay two on the turn if they have a made straight, or anything else that looks good to them, especially given the size of the pot.

In addition, being afraid of a higher two-card flush when you hold Qxs and you've faced just a single bet from a CA maniac is pretty weak-tight...you've been playing NL for too long. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: 4/8 Full Kill Hand
 

Oh, crap. Not used to posting hands anymore. The board was all low. If I hadn't had the four of hearts, a straight flush would have been possible.

I haven't been playing lots of NLHE either. I was on a hiatus of all things hold'em, for the most part. I was playing lots of O8. Stud is still tough for me, because of chemo messing with my memory so much, but it's slowly coming back. I have been successful in the 20/40 games.

Right now I'm trying to get back into hold'em. We'll see where this takes me. The year off definitely did some good. I was so sick of HE that I wanted to puke. Now I can actually have a decent time, instead of simply tolerating it.

TYVM for your feedback,

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 4/8 Full Kill Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't raise because of the loose/passive opponents left in the hand. I also felt that given the odd chance that I was beat, I would lose less.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would just raise it up right there since the loose/passive opponents may call anyway with a straight+flush combo and other garbage. You will also get calls from the ace[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and king[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Also, if I am reading the above passage correctly and if you overcalled and got raised you weren't planning on taking it to 3town, I really don't like it.

Haupt_234

Re: 4/8 Full Kill Hand
 

ms(or mrs?) lee,

i respect you alot. pop the freakin turn. charge those loosepassive zombies at 4/8 for not spending $30 bucks on a book to teach them to fold their hopeless crap and not chase bottom pair. trust me, they usually call. we must maximize these spots with them. in gambling edges must be pushed and here you failed to do so.

regards,

James.

Re: 4/8 Full Kill Hand
 

Hi felicia-

I hope all is well with you. Others have said why its best to raise this hand. I assume you were on her right because the rest of the table was letting you take control of hands, if that wasn't the case I think I would have wrather been on her left. Your relative position to the field would have been better.

Re: 4/8 Full Kill Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
The board was all low. If I hadn't had the four of hearts, a straight flush would have been possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you should raise the flop and blow out the field, trying to get it HU and clean up your Q-outs.

Re: 4/8 Full Kill Hand
 

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. The more I replay this hand, the more I hate the way I played it, and the way I have been playing the 4/8 on the weekends, in general.

I will have to revisit post-flop play more carefully in the future. It is a big leak of mine and since I'm starting to play HE again, I need to plug it immediately.

Thanks again!

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]