Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"
 

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As a poker player you are a consumer, you keep money in cycle, you help companies make money (ftp + else you buy) thus creating/keeping jobs.

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Everyone is a consumer, that's not what people mean by contributing. Contributing = creating something that has value to someone else.

Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"
 

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As a poker player you are a consumer, you keep money in cycle, you help companies make money (ftp + else you buy) thus creating/keeping jobs.

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Just because US politicians utter sheer nonsense like that daily doesn't make this kind of reasoning any more valid.

Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"
 

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I bet most of the guys playing poker for a living just whipe their thoughts of guilt under their mental carpet. If they are enough in tune with themselves to feel any at all. And yes, you should most probably feel a bit guilty since you in no way at all contribute to make the world a better place. And ultimately, I'm sure that's what we all would like to do if we dig deep inside.

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Fighting your conscience is part of playing. People look at all sort of professions in this light: lawyer, business exec....

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Someone once compared a professional poker player to a drug dealer and to be honest, I don't think he was that far off. It went something like poker players sell a certain rush, some sort of dream of a better place for the losing player for a while, and then finally the 'pro' ends up with most of his money and the loser leaves feeling empty, discouraged and not feeling good about his losses. Sort of what you feel after doing some extacy, coke or another drug. Obviously not the same feeling but you get the point.

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We are selling a dream? Really? So some one wants to be a doctor, spends 10 years in school, comes out and learns two things: he hates it, he isn't good at it.

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Poker players saying they contribute by spending more money are probably never in their lives going to get it anyway. And the guys saying they contribute by paying taxes I would refer to a former speaker comparing it to pay taxes from stealing. Poker is just an 'honest' form of stealing.

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Pretty much what I just said. I am not forcing anyone to fire up their computer or come to my table. They are willingly placing a bet. They believe that they can beat me. They want a contest of the minds. If they want to play me for free, come find me at Scrabble.

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Then there are the guys like Barry G giving of his winnings to charity. Boy, imagine the guilt he feels inside for doing what he does. Making loads of money from other peoples misery is essentially what you do when playing poker for big money. And your plate is not going to be clean for giving a fraction of it to charity. Karma.
If anyone could argue against this, please do because I would be very pleased in learning such so that I could get my own weights of my shoulders.

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Quit playing poker. Seriously. I used to have these same issues. When I started, I was playing as a small stakes prop. People were not feeding themselves, bathing, or buying little things like glasses to see, while dumping $300 on the table twice a week. I had a mental breakdown.

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I, for one, am not proud when saying I'm a professional poker player. But I just can't see a way out of it as long as I'm making the kind of money I do. Guilt or no guilt. I'm in awe to you people who actually feel you are doing something good or productive, but wow, you are experts at fooling yourselves!

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Am I proud to be a pro? Not completely. Am I proud of what I have accomplished? Well. Let's think of the life I had before playing poker: nah, that's not something you want to hear. I am healthy, able to feed myself, and able to pay for things. I can promise you that I was contributing very little to society although I had a "real job," because back then, I couldn't afford to pay rent without two or more roommates.

I see poker as a stepping stone to greater things. I hope to share a wonderful life with people I know, and that would not even seem possible without poker.

For the people who tell me to get a respectable job. I ask them what I respectable job is. If they tell me that I was more of a human digging holes, then I don't have time for them. I never got a great answer for what "respectable" job I would be able to do.

Fundamentally, it is similar to the Christians who will tell you that what you are doing is sin. Basically some religious belief is driving your thoughts. I tell them that Jesus taught toleration. I have learned to tolerate varying opinions and people in my life. If I want to live my own life without being judged, I must learn to live and let live. That is Karma.

Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"
 

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The professional gambler occupation is nearly unique in being completely unproductive in the broad economic sense.


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This is really it.

Also, something that no-one seems to have mentioned (although I've only read the first page) is that most poker pros - particularly of the new online breed - are very intelligent and capable people who probably ought to be doing something nobler with themselves.

Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"
 

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Within 100 trillion years, all black holes will dissolve and protons will decay into positrons and electrons which, in turn, will annihilate each other, leaving nothing in the universe but a vast soup of photons, photons which tell nothing of the story of the universe's past. When that time comes, nothing that has transpired in the history of the universe will be known or knowable, including whether you made a contribution to society, or whether humanity ever existed at all, so who really cares if playing poker professionally contributes to society or not? I just care that it allows me to (a) not have a job and (b) still afford nice things.

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Exactly. It's very nihilistic view of life, but so true.

Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"
 

Didn't read entire thread but to me its very clear that we add to society ill try to explain.

Poker pro's are like pro atletes some people look up to you and wanna be like you so you create a dream for people to persuit or to invision themself as even if they will never become like you.Like whats the use of prof chess players? People can play chess without them. Like Magic the gathering for me it was so much more fun and took it more serious just because there is a pro system and people actually live from it and there is a "goal" to reach. This is exactly the same, you add to the value of the phenomenon of poker. Poker is so much more fun greatly BECAUSE there are people actually living from it even if you are a fish who will never win at it, it adds greatly to it.

So in short poker is a form of entertainment poker pro's add to what is poker so we add to a form of entertainment. Thats or contribution to society we are part of a hobby, type of entertainment. If we dont contribute to society neither does a pro atlete or an actor or any idol ppl look up to wanna be like.

Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"
 

Pro poker players do contribute to society. Removing their existence entirely would necessitate an Orwellian invasive state system and loss of freedom for all. As such their very existence helps to ensure liberty itself. Beat that [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"
 

Assuming we're talking about the US, poker players pay a lot of money in rake to big corporations, which helps the American economy (or at least, the American GDP, which some could well argue is a different matter). Casino poker players pay a lot of money in taxes, which goes to the American government and enables it to 'defend the nation' from nasty terrorists and what have you. Big name pros provide televisual entertainment, which makes people happy.

I'm struggling to think what other circumstances count as 'contributing to society', other than voluntary charity work.

As someone with no religious beliefs or great passion for a particular profession, I have often found that I have no drive, nothing to keep me going (not in a dramabomb 'oh I have nothing to live for' way, more a bored, lazy, sleeping all day, 'ho hum' sort of way). But poker gives me that drive, something to learn, improve at, understand etc. To me it makes a huge contribution, as I'm sure it does a lot of other people. And that has to be worth something.

Re: Being told \"professional poker doesn\'t contribute to society.\"
 

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The professional gambler occupation is nearly unique in being completely unproductive in the broad economic sense.


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This is really it.

Also, something that no-one seems to have mentioned (although I've only read the first page) is that most poker pros - particularly of the new online breed - are very intelligent and capable people who probably ought to be doing something nobler with themselves.

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Until society wants to give me all the material possessions, food, etc I want for free, I don't give a [censored]. But as long as my computer costs money, rent isn't free, and I have to pay for food, I'm not going to make it a priority to 'contribute to society' in the act of making money. I'm going to make getting money my priority. So personally, I don't give a [censored] what you or anyone else thinks.

Not that you are higher or mightier (if you aren't a poker pro) anyway. You think the trashman does my trash because he wants to contribute to society? [censored] that, he collects the trash because it's highest paying job he could get with his skillset and history. Same for the bank clerks and grocery managers. The reason other people bring up the 'contribution to society' is because they are jealous and can't stand the fact that I/you make so much money 'easily'.

And I don't give a [censored].

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[censored] your nobility. If I can make the same amount of money/hour doing a more noble and enjoyable thing, I'll do it, but until you present that to me, go [censored] yourself and your 'nobility'.