Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

shocks me. it's really not that hard. it's just a drawing hand lol ffs.

Dag Martin Mikkelsen Eliminated in 42nd Place ($237,865)

Preflop, Dag Martin Mikkelsen raises to 150,000 in the cutoff and David Tran reraises to 500,000 on the button. Mikkelsen three-bets all in for 2,600,000 with A-K and Tran calls with A-A. Mikkelsen is out and Tran is up to 8,400,000.

bb was 50k. could have been a re-steal... but come on.... he prob has a pair and you're fliping or a big underdog.... maybe just call pre and at least see a flop? no - raises all in. i don't get it... he had over 60 x bb and was in the top 10 in chips.

seen countless other HH's where people play it like it's aces. if you have a low stack then fine....

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

%¤#%¤&/%(/&(/&/&%&%¤/&&(/&

kill urself

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

rainkhan told me tran was reraising preflop lightly, as such its an obvious shove. to assume otherwise given that information makes one a really weak player.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

of all the examples of people horribly butchering AK preflop in this tournament, you picked an absolutely standard play.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

maybe call and see a flop?

or re-raise 1million to make it known that you're serious?

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

no, and 1 million more is effectively a shove, so just shove

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
maybe call and see a flop?

or re-raise 1million to make it known that you're serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

no

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

ahahahaha

this cant be serious right?

at least op is living up to his username

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

fwiw i know who the player is and i know he is obv sick in tourneys so not slating him in general.

imo.. if he raises a million more and gets shoves on by a guy who covers him then he has to assume A-A or K-K. JJ and QQ aren't 4-betting it.

i know i'm being results orientated but i can honestly say if someone posted this as a HH with the re-raise i'd just call and get away on the flop.

guess i am a weak tight nit. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

also.. if i busted with KK vs AA then i'd chalk it up as a cooler and shrug. but this is different imo.

again... really nothign against this player so please be mature and discuss the strategies rather than hurling abuse. ty

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

I love people who fold AK to my 3 bets <3 <3 <3

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I love people who fold AK to my 3 bets <3 <3 <3

[/ QUOTE ]

But I don't think it's ever actually happened [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Why do you and Shaun get such sick table draws?

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

OP: YSSCKY

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

shhh everyone... don't tap the glass.
nice observation OP

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

lol you lot can tell me i suck at poker... but i know my results and i am happy with them.

i can make laydowns.

but please prove you are older than 12 and talk about the hand..

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

nvmd gimmick account. oh well

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

you're guaranteed a sick payout, you want to make it to the final table and give yourself some chips, why wouldnt you play AK like the nuts now

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

It's pretty rarely correct to fold AK preflop deep in anything.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lol you lot can tell me i suck at poker... but i know my results and i am happy with them.

i can make laydowns.

but please prove you are older than 12 and talk about the hand..

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil Hellmuth?

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty rarely correct to fold AK preflop deep in anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs. I realize we have some of these hands dominated but the list serves to explain that he's simply not holding a monster worthy of the ultimate gamble. Being in the top 10 players at the WSOP ME when there are only 40 remaining I don't think it should be that hard to fold the hand to avoid a coin toss crippling.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
it's just a drawing hand

[/ QUOTE ]No it's not.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ][img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lol you lot can tell me i suck at poker... but i know my results and i am happy with them.

i can make laydowns.

but please prove you are older than 12 and talk about the hand..

[/ QUOTE ]So, what you're really saying is "I can dodge bullets baby!"

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

Jesus this thread is dumb. Grats to dmmikkel for making it so far. This hand is obv super standard and OP sucks. /thread

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ]To quote BarryG quoting I forget who, "There's no sense being precise when you don't know what you're talking about."

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]


or re-raise 1million to make it known that you're serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where you need to just look him in the eye and tell him you're serious.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ]To quote BarryG quoting I forget who, "There's no sense being precise when you don't know what you're talking about."

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty rarely correct to fold AK preflop deep in anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is misleading, because 99 crushes 62o, but AK doesn't. Even though half of "the deck" is undercards, we need to throw them out of the analysis.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

nope.... sorry.

if you lose with KK to AA or AA to JJ or something then you can say "ah - wasn't ym day - nothing i could do about it".

but getting all in with A-K with that stack compared tot he blinds is criminal imo. the guy had him dominated. what was he hoping him to have? a-j or a-q? i doubt these would re-raise pre would/should obv fold to his shove.

but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip".

as i said... if his stack was short then it is totally different. but this was a wasted chance at the big one imo.

so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

omg donk you are so wrong in so many ways that it's sickening. Good players love people like you because they take all of your money.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
omg donk you are so wrong in so many ways that it's sickening. Good players love people like you because they take all of your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's asking for insight and your acting like a pompous jackass. Don't even bother posting if you can't say anything constructive. The guy is trying to advance his game you clown.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

Well, it's so easy. Sorry, guys, I'll try to explain because otherwise OP will last forever.

He had a read that villain was 3-betting light. He had a strong hand. He wanted respect for his raises. He wanted to put a villain to a test if he had 99 or 1010. He didn't mind a coinflip this late in the tournament if villain had balls to call with middle pair.

It's basic late tournament strategy. Especially for the guys who are laughing at you in this thread. They made a lot of money thanks to the guys who are folding AK or calling OOP in this spot.

Sorry, Scott/mastr. I just can't stand it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

[/ QUOTE ]

CUZ U GOT AN ACE!!

AND A KING!!!!!!


AND ACE AND A MOTHER [censored] KING!!!!!!

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
omg donk you are so wrong in so many ways that it's sickening. Good players love people like you because they take all of your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's asking for insight and your acting like a pompous jackass. Don't even bother posting if you can't say anything constructive. The guy is trying to advance his game you clown.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the risk of being leveled, and trying to talk strategy somewhere it obviously doesn't belong, I'll try to explain it to OP. Ok, so it folds to Dag in the CO. Dag is extremely aggressive, and I'd bet he's taking a shot at the blinds here at least 30% of the time, maybe more like 50% (hell maybe ATC,) but we'll say 30% to be conservative. Tran knows this, so he could be reraising as a bluff, and even if not he can raise top 10-15% of hands for value in this spot. Dag knows AK is at the tip top of his range. He knows Tran is reraising top 10% at the very least here. However, Dag also probably feels that Tran is at least competent, and playing postflop OOP with AK will be tricky. Also, Dag knows that given Tran's wide reraising range, he can shove AK for value. Tran may call him light thinking Dag is making a move, he'll most likely fold, but even if not, AK crushes Tran's reraising range. Unfortunately for Dag, AA was in Tran's range. However, Tran shows up with AA here about 1-2% of the time. It was just really bad luck for Dag, but a totally standard play.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

dmmikkel is probably opening 50-60% of his hands here and tran knows this, so tran should be reraising him with hands AK crushes, dmm doesnt want to call and have no clue where hes at on the flop, so he shoves since hes only in really bad shape against AA or KK, and a coinflip is a +EV move for him because hes going to be more than 2x as profitable with double the chips (plus the chips in the pot already)

all this makes his play so super standard for anyone whos good and playing for first

[ QUOTE ]
He's asking for insight and your acting like a pompous jackass. Don't even bother posting if you can't say anything constructive. The guy is trying to advance his game you clown.

[/ QUOTE ]

you'd think someone would at least figure out when a bunch of top players agree with the play, its probably correct

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
nope.... sorry.

if you lose with KK to AA or AA to JJ or something then you can say "ah - wasn't ym day - nothing i could do about it".

but getting all in with A-K with that stack compared tot he blinds is criminal imo. the guy had him dominated. what was he hoping him to have? a-j or a-q? i doubt these would re-raise pre would/should obv fold to his shove.

but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip".

as i said... if his stack was short then it is totally different. but this was a wasted chance at the big one imo.

so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are probably too dumb to understand this but I'm hungover and have nothing better to do.

I'm gonna make some assumptions that are almost certainly correct.

1. Mikkelsen is a good tournament player that will open a pretty wide range in the CO, especially with his stack.

2. Button knows this and is probably from time to time gonna reraise him with marginal holdings to pick up the pot preflop. This is a very standard move. Earlier in the thread, Clayton said Tran was indeed capable of this. You are stating in your post that you doubt AQ/AJ would reraise preflop. If you're gonna argue that point you are a lost case and you can stop reading.

So, when Tran has reraised, there is 750k in the pot which would represent a 30% increase in Mikkelsen's stack. Lets say Tran's range is something like 88+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs, T9s and 98s to account for random steal hands. Believe me, it could be way wider than that. If he only calls with JJ+, AK+, he will fold 62.5% of the time winning Mikkelsen the pot. The remaining 37.5% Mikkelsen will have 40% equity.

37.5% of the time, Mikkelsen will lose an average of 330k
62.5% of the time, he will win 750k

The stupididty in passing up an edge of more than 10 BB is obv not even debatable.

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love people who fold AK to my 3 bets <3 <3 <3

[/ QUOTE ]

But I don't think it's ever actually happened [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Why do you and Shaun get such sick table draws?

[/ QUOTE ]

come play in the uk, people fold AK to open raises :*)

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The stupididty in passing up an edge of more than 10 BB is obv not even debatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but what if you have to put your TOURNAMENT LIFE ON THE LINE?


HUH?

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The stupididty in passing up an edge of more than 10 BB is obv not even debatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but what if you have to put your TOURNAMENT LIFE ON THE LINE?


HUH?

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn you, nobody would have noticed!

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
nope.... sorry.

if you lose with KK to AA or AA to JJ or something then you can say "ah - wasn't ym day - nothing i could do about it".

but getting all in with A-K with that stack compared tot he blinds is criminal imo. the guy had him dominated. what was he hoping him to have? a-j or a-q? i doubt these would re-raise pre would/should obv fold to his shove.

but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip".

as i said... if his stack was short then it is totally different. but this was a wasted chance at the big one imo.

so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

[/ QUOTE ]

um, you seem to be missing the point: when you shove it in with AK here, you're expecting a lot of fold equity.

I mean, the way you're talking, I assume you think it's crazy to call a 3-bet all-in with 22-JJ, because "you're just a flip or dominated." Given that logic, doesn't AK have a TON of fold equity here?

/wasting my time on idiocy

Re: Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love people who fold AK to my 3 bets <3 <3 <3

[/ QUOTE ]

But I don't think it's ever actually happened [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Why do you and Shaun get such sick table draws?

[/ QUOTE ]

come play in the uk, people fold AK to open raises :*)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny. In Ireland KQs is played like it is the stone colds.

But the two times I played tournaments in the UK I was shocked at how weak tight the average player was. Very disturbing (and wonderful - "I raise" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).