illegal to have offshore entity pay you to donate to lobbying firm ?
 

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Essentially, it is pretty transparent you are being asked to exchange funds with an illegal offshore entity and a US based lobbying organization.

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I don't agree with the "illegal offshore entity" part. But lets think of it as saying "legal offshore entity".

I am considering Full Tilts proposal. ($200 if donate $100 to PPA) Is this covered by any current U.S. legislation?

Re: illegal to have offshore entity pay you to donate to lobbying firm ?
 

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Essentially, it is pretty transparent you are being asked to exchange funds with an illegal offshore entity and a US based lobbying organization.

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I don't agree with the "illegal offshore entity" part. But lets think of it as saying "legal offshore entity".

I am considering Full Tilts proposal. ($200 if donate $100 to PPA) Is this covered by any current U.S. legislation?

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Interesting question.

<Begin speculation>

It could be money-laundering.

Suppose a major drug smuggler is arrested. His offshore drug kingpin boss wires $100000 to the U.S. to hire the best lawyer available. The Government seizes the tainted money. Oops.

Let's try again. The kingpin wires you $110000 and you pay the lawyer, keeping $10000 for yourself as commission. That sounds like money-laundering and you could go to prison.

What does that have to do with FTP? Replace "lawyer" with "lobbyist", "drug smuggling" with "illegal gambling" and you seem to be doing a similar thing. This could be a crime, at least on paper. Of course I can't imagine them trying to prosecute it.

Re: illegal to have offshore entity pay you to donate to lobbying firm ?
 

If the "lobbying organization" is seeking to influence federal legislation on behalf of a foreign corporation, it needs to register as such .... doubt that has been done by the PPA as yet.

I sure hope they are getting good legal counsel from their high priced lobbyist advisors, becasue they are going to be under scrutiny for allegedly taking money from offshore, "illegal"sources as it is.

Re: illegal to have offshore entity pay you to donate to lobbying firm
 

As I understand the FTP offer, FTP is not giving money to the PPA, they are rewarding players who give money to the PPA by giving those players a special bonus. That is an important legal difference. Two good deeds do not make one bad one [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Skallagrim

Actually, two \"good deeds\" can make a felony in lobbying in DC
 

I would really be cautious about what is said here.

IF the PPA is involved or becomes involved in making campaign contributions for example, then the "2 good deeds = 1 felony" applies:

It would be clearly illegal for a corporation, domestic or foreign, to reimburse people for making a contribution to a federal election campaign.

I do not know enough about the PPA activities to know if a similar rule would apply to their conduct, but I hope they have good counsel on this matter. I would also hope that FTP has good counsel of their own.

Re: Actually, two \"good deeds\" can make a felony in lobbying in DC
 

You are right Milton, but (again this is based on my understanding of what FTP has promoted) no FTP money is going to the PPA, and players are not "reimbursed" but given a new bonus to earn. I dont think that counts. But if it were a direct re-imbursement(give $20 we pay you $20) thats a different story.

Re: Actually, two \"good deeds\" can make a felony in lobbying in DC
 

But what about the fact the money is going "through" FTP to get to the PPA? Customer deposits to FTP, FTP passes it on to the PPA.

Even though that's not FTP's money, don't they have constructive possession of it, and the actual direct transfer of funds to the PPA is coming from FTP? Unless the transaction goes directly from the customer's bank account, or credit card, or what not, to the PPA's account, I don't see how it can be interpreted otherwise.

Re: Actually, two \"good deeds\" can make a felony in lobbying in DC
 

Money travels through a lot of hands before reaching its final destination. This fact is not of legal importance in this context as the player is merely using FTP as a conduit for his money.

Tell me it ain\'t so, Joe
 

Skill,

I had not realized that any lobbying money was ever passing thru FTP's hands.... That is INSANE, politically and, possibly, legally. Why the f*ck doesn't FTP, or Howard, or any of the $500/$1000 NL players we hear so much about, simply write a check themselves ???

Collecting money as a "conduit" is well covered in federal lobbying law. I would not want to be an offshore gambling company AND collecting money from US citizens for lobbying, rather than putting up my own money.

That cannot be what they are really doing, is it? PLEASE tell me they are NOT being a conduit for channeling someone else's lobbying money back to the US.

Re: Tell me it ain\'t so, Joe
 

Milton I dont know all the details of the FTP offer/bonus. I would like to use it myself, but I currently dont have a way to deposit on FTP and still have enough money there to play for awhile. I do know FTP and the PPA get some high-priced legal advice and I would be surprised if this was structured in a way that had bad legal ramifications. If I get one of those visa gift cards and try it over the weekend I will let you know if I learn more about the structure. This could be done/structured legally, so I hope it is ... but it also wouldnt be the first time someone violated a law out of ignorance if thats whats happening.

Skallagrim

Re: Tell me it ain\'t so, Joe
 

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I do know FTP and the PPA get some high-priced legal advice and I would be surprised if this was structured in a way that had bad legal ramifications.

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Of course, as we all know, the higher-priced the legal advice is, the less suspect it is, I suspect a few of Larry Sonsini's clients are thinking otherwise right about now. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Anyway, I'm not educated on the law on legal conduits for money being funnelled to lobbyists, so I certainly won't comment, other than to say I hope what they're doing isn't contraventing the law in that regard.

Re: Tell me it ain\'t so, Joe
 

Milton - I went to FTP website and here is how they describe the process:
# Log in to your Full Tilt Poker account and click on the Cashier button on the right.

# Click on the My Promotions button in the bottom right hand corner of the Cashier.

# Click on the Poker Players Alliance banner at the top of the page.

# Select your PPA membership by clicking the button that corresponds to your preferred PPA membership level.

# At this point, you will be transferred to a special PPA page where you can complete your registration. Once finished, simply return to the Full Tilt Poker game and begin playing in our ring games and tournaments to earn the Full Tilt Points you need to claim your bonus.

Still havent done it myself (I am already a PPA member, but I believe there is an option for me too), but the above method looks like no money is actually passing through FTP.

Skallagrim

Re: Tell me it ain\'t so, Joe
 

Being as I'm a bonus whore I signed up through the link which takes you to the PPA website where you sign up and pay for the PPA.

Full Tilt is basically working as an "Affiliate" for the PPA.

The bonus is kind of like when you sign up for a poker room thru an affiliate that gives you a chip set for signing up using their link.

Not sure if that makes it legal.

Re: illegal to have offshore entity pay you to donate to lobbying firm ?
 

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This could be a crime (by the poker player) , at least on paper. Of course I can't imagine them trying to prosecute it.

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This is of the most interest to me. The PPA and Full Tilt have their interests.

But what of the player. Anyone else want to talk about that aspect?

Re: Tell me it ain\'t so, Joe
 

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Anyway, I'm not educated on the law on legal conduits for money being funnelled to lobbyists, so I certainly won't comment, other than to say I hope what they're doing isn't contraventing the law in that regard.

[/ QUOTE ]Well done sir!

Gotta use that legal education somehow.

Re: illegal to have offshore entity pay you to donate to lobbying firm ?
 

I think this is basically the same way the PPA got most all of its original members and cashflow. Party Poker offered a bonus to anyone who joined the PPA for Free through them. I'm not sure if Party made it clear in the promotion that Party was also paying the $20 PPA Membership Fee. But I doubt if PPA was just giving the memberships away for free if they came through Party. Also, the $1-2 million in PPA's coffers came from somewhere.

PairTheBoard

Re: illegal to have offshore entity pay you to donate to lobbying firm ?
 

PTB, if memory serves me correctly, the riginal Party/PPA bonus was based on you going to the PPA website and making a donation to join. You would then input your membership number into the Party deposit screen, as a deposit bonus code, along with your next deposit, in order to activate the bonus.

I believe also at the end, Party put up an option on the withdrawal screen, for you to allocate funds from your balance to be directly donated to the PPA, rather than withdrawn.

I haven't looked at the FTP process, but Milton raises a good point...

Re: illegal to have offshore entity pay you to donate to lobbying firm ?
 

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I haven't looked at the FTP process, but Milton raises a good point...


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The process ultimately sends you to a PPA web site (not FTP) where you donate using credit card or (possibly) other options. I did it with a credit card. No money flows through Full Tilt.