simple stuf, beyond me.
 

5/10

unknown limps, I raise JJ on button, noisy+good 2+2er calls in BB.

Flop A53 2 diamonds (I don't have J diamond)

unknown donks. That's it I was okay till now. What the plan?

Ta

Re: simple stuf, beyond me.
 

I call. BB can't peel with many hands, so I wouldn't really worry about protecting here.
If BB folds I'd plan on calling down unless the board gets ugly (diamond, OC's)

Re: simple stuf, beyond me.
 

i give it up I think, both just ck called the flop rite so the pots like 5 bbs on the turn rite, not even?

HU id call down and yah i dont think we need to worry about knockin out BB here, hed probably have check-raised an A after the limper just calls the flop rite, he knows u ll cb any hand here ( i guess a raise could make him lay down an A so maybe its worth considering a freeshowdown raise, depends if u think he ever wouldnt cr A8o on the flop?)

who is this noisy 2+2er we talkin about miles?

Re: simple stuf, beyond me.
 

I fold this when the pot is still small

Re: simple stuf, beyond me.
 

I used to think this was a calldown as the donk always seemed weak, but lately it seems that weak Ax like to donk the A-high flops into a pf raiser. Their line makes no sense because they always call down if you have a better kicker and raise, but if I call down with KK-TT I'm rarely good.

This is a great question because I really have no idea what to do in these spots.

Re: simple stuf, beyond me.
 

I fold without much hesitation.

Re: simple stuf, beyond me.
 

I raise and then go from there. However, this is tough for me.

If I raise I hate getting 3 bet and then wtf do I do? Limper or 2+2er could 3 bet a draw or made hand and if 2+2er's still in now the pots huge and I don't want to fold the biggest hand but I might have to put in a ton of bets to see the river. A simple call sucks too for kind of the same reasons but at least with a raise we can see what's going to happen and possibly get it heads up with unknown.

Re: simple stuf, beyond me.
 

i just want ot stress that the raising to see what happens (for information) is a very bad mentality/ way of thinking in general esp when we can just call twice put in the same amount of money and see his actual cards

thats been said by many before tho, here may be different just becuz we could make bb fold a winner if he didnt cr an A on the flop but we still have to hvae sb beat ( and not get 3betbluffed) or make him fold a weak A or better Q. doesnt seem worth it but im not as horribly opposed to it as i mite be in other instances. i still prefer a fold tho and not by alittle.

Re: simple stuf, beyond me.
 

For the players that say; OMFG TURBOMUCK

can I get a hand range on unknown?

Re: simple stuf, beyond me.
 

[ QUOTE ]
For the players that say; OMFG TURBOMUCK

can I get a hand range on unknown?

[/ QUOTE ]

Id say its much more heavily weighted towards good hands than bad hands being as the pot is protected (Ax 4x not like 77 or 5x and fds in my opinion). If we knew the exact ratio we could have some idea whether calling down would be approaching +EV or not, but I cant really know just guessing based on previous experience vs typical players at these limits.

we also have the player behind us to worry about being ahead of so its not a very straight up am i ahead enough or not problem. these are why i muck, its gonna be all about how often u think we are ahead when he donks into two here (and also the parlay we have the BB beat) tho u think more often than those that say fold I guess