Help my horse (and me)
 

Hi all,

I am trying to help a buddy out with small stakes nl. What are the best sites to play now for $0.50-$1 and $1-$2? (And is $2-$4 small stakes?) Are you finding bots and/or set farmers are hurting the games much? We're only interested in sites that pay quickly and without hassle. How are FTP and Pokerstars nowadays? Is PokerTracker still the best software? Should he use overlays?

(For those of you who are curious, I gave up online poker last spring. The video game + poker addiction aspect was interfering with sleep -- I couldn't sleep well after playing -- so I quit. And for those of you who have to hear it, yes, I won a lot and still could easily.)

My guy plays ok and has control and some clue about the math of poker, but does not know how to play JJ and AK, when to play 76s, when to fire a second barrel, what circumstances make 55 a good play, and so forth. The plan is to beat the book's techniques into his head and see what he can do. You'll be getting updates, but we won't be starting until after Tunica.

Play good, 'cause I may see you online and post your hands.

Any help is appreciated. PMs are fine.

Thanks!

Matt

Re: Need help
 

PokerStars is fine, I haven't played at FTP for a while but I hear the games are quite tight there. Could be wrong on this.

Re: Need help
 

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PokerStars is fine, I haven't played at FTP for a while but I hear the games are quite tight there. Could be wrong on this.

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FTP is definitely tighter than PokerStars, but the rakeback makes up for it (if he chooses a site that allows it, make sure he gets rakeback!).

Games are tight like you wouldn't believe. I'd have him start at $.25-$.50 or $.10-$.25. And $2-$4 is considered medium stakes, not small stakes.

Re: Need help
 

What is the best site for rakeback?

When you say tight, what kind of VPIP are we talking about for full ring and 6-max? We'll be starting at 0.50-1.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

Also...I didn't mention in my PM, but have your buddy practice judicious table selection...biggest pots, most players to flop, etc.

Re: Need help
 

Of course this thread spawns this, but I can't resist. Are the games at Stars that much jucier than at FTP. I play 1/2NL at FTP, and there seem to be plenty of donks for the taking. RB + datamining = yay. No resizable tables = nay.

Re: Need help
 

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What is the best site for rakeback?

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There is a rakeback forum sir [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Stars doesn't allow RB, so FT would be best if those are the two sites you've decided to play (They are the two largest open to US players by a huge margin).

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

FT has better bonuses too, it think they still do the %100 up to $600 for signup. a nice help to a starting bankroll.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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FT has better bonuses too, it think they still do the %100 up to $600 for signup. a nice help to a starting bankroll.

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Holy *&^$! Nice!

Re: Need help
 

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What is the best site for rakeback?

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There is a rakeback forum sir [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Please don't ban me. I'll be good. ;-)

Re: Need help
 

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What is the best site for rakeback?

When you say tight, what kind of VPIP are we talking about for full ring and 6-max? We'll be starting at 0.50-1.

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I only play 6-max, so I'm not sure about full ring. But there's probably an average of three 20%-25% VPIP (which is arguably ideal) players at every 6-max table. If there's on particular super-fish at a table, then the rest of the table is going to be a bunch of TAGs.

Best site for rakeback? Not much of a difference, really. I'm at FTP and I enjoy the site. The sign-up bonus took me about 15K hands to clear at the $.50-$1 level (I think). But rakeback makes a HUGE difference. Playing 20K hands a month with FTP's 27% rakeback yields an extra $700 or so a month.
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Also...I didn't mention in my PM, but have your buddy practice judicious table selection...biggest pots, most players to flop, etc.

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This is also very important, or else he's likely to end up at a table where everyone's VPIP is under 30%.
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Of course this thread spawns this, but I can't resist. Are the games at Stars that much jucier than at FTP. I play 1/2NL at FTP, and there seem to be plenty of donks for the taking. RB + datamining = yay. No resizable tables = nay.

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I played at PokerStars a week ago to clear the $150 reload bonus, and there IS a noticable difference, but not enough to switch me over (unless I had Supernova right off the bat, which I don't). Even though I can 9-table instead of just 4-table without overlap there, rakeback is just too much better. Can't wait for FTP's resizable tables though!

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

Matt,
if your buddy is playing full ring, he is likely to run into 3-4 set miners/ nut peddlars at every table from 50NL to 200NL. Most of them are easy to play against, ie not tricky at all postflop. PokerAce HUD is definitely worth it IMO with pokertracker as well. Reviewing sessions in pokertracker is just so sweet.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

Wow, is this really the 100000000th "FT or Stars???!" post. Op should know better

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

FTP is great. Between FTP and Neteller I was able to clear a xxxx cashout with less than 36 hours between cashout and the money hitting my bank account.

As far as I know I haven't run into any bots. There's only one that I was suspicious of though since his name was "TestBot," or something and he called my all-in with A-high in a 250BB pot. His time between actions was always the same. Are people that stupid to make that their screename though?

Anyway, as for setfarmers, they aren't bad if you can spot them. They are really stripping away the portions of poker that make poker profitable and differentiate good players from bad players. They aren't allowing themselves to make mistakes but are relying on the mistakes of others. Everyone makes money on sets, it's those who eek out profits in between sets that are the allstars. Therefore, if it means just one less person at my table to worry about, then I don't mind a set farmer at all.

The play on FTP has been really really fishy as of late, and ABC poker works fine. I'd strongly recommend that your buddy reduce, if not eliminate bluffing from his game. It's usually spew. If you can't get someone to fold a mediocre overpair bluffing is the wrong direction to go, there's just too much value in your big hands.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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No resizable tables

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Probably the biggest reason I don't play at FTP. Seems stupid, but I don't have two monitors (yet).

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

OP is a newb. jk Matt.

My view on Stars and Full Tilt:

Stars: check/call, check/raise, check/call, check/raise, check/call, check/raise

Full Tilt: hero raises, villan # 1 re-raises, villan #2 4 bets, hero pushes, villan #1 calls, villan #2 calls. Hero shows AK, villan #1 shows 55, villan #2 shows 66.

Stars= no rakeback, but decent store, and best customer support by far and there's not a close 2nd

Full Tilt= $600 bonus that takes a while to clear + rakeback, but have a reward store that they actually charge you to get stuff from with your points that cuts into your rakeback

Re: Need help
 

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What is the best site for rakeback?

When you say tight, what kind of VPIP are we talking about for full ring and 6-max? We'll be starting at 0.50-1.

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Two I looked at for rakeback - which I don't have damnit and I'm not sure what to do about but thats a whole nother damn subject - are:

www.raketherake.com
www.thisisthenuts.com

They both offer I think 27% on FTP. I've been playing FTP just a couple of weeks (used to play on Party pre them running away little a scared little girl) and I have found some of the games are WAY too tight for my liking. Seems like 6 max is a little more looser but I've even sat in 6max where VP$IP is like 15% - and thats with me contributing 40% lol. Seems like you can find suitable games but you have to look for them sometimes.

I use PokerTracker and PokerAceHUD and they're great - PokerTracker helps a great deal and using the notes feature to note what you did well or badly in sessions helps too.

Re: Need help
 

Some people like PokerOffice, some like PokerTracker. If you are of the opinion that PokerTracker *was* the best, you are still going to like it better than PO.

Having PT and not having an overlay program is like marrying Ms. America and never touching her.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

Have your friend play 6-max instead of full ring. It will be beneficial to him in both the short and long run.

Also, Full Tilt is just as soft, if not softer, than Stars at the limits you mentioned.

If he plays on Full Tilt, it is IMPERATIVE that he sign up with an affiliate that pays 27% rakeback.

Re: Need help
 

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Having PT and not having an overlay program is like marrying Ms. America and only touching the top half of her.

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

I've played a ton of at 1/2 at both stars and ft and assuming party isn't an option(im like 99% sure your us from following your old high stakes posts) ft is definitely softer imo. Ft also gets you a decent rb%(stars has none) and one of the best sign up bonuses on the net. Also if he's rly serious he can use 6th sense at ft to help w/ game selection which in the long run is a massive boost to wr as im sure your aware.

I haven't played much 100nl at either but i'd assume .5/1 and 1/2 correlates pretty well.

Paul

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

2 more things.

1) Regardless of whether he was to go w/ poker office or pt or whatever if he's going to get one of those things sixth sense is the thing that he can use at ft in particular that is just invaluable when it comes to game selection(coming from an 8tabler that used to just jump in to the 1st 8 tables going).

2) If u rly wanna start him off on fr stars is better. Definitely the biggest fr site around atm. I think you'd be better served getting him straight in to 6max though because the way things are going fr game selection at 2/4+ is going to be non-existant in the not so distant future.

I guess a 3rd thing to. One other option is to spread money on both sites. Take advantage of ft's sign up bonus and rb and learn 6max there. Learn fr on stars and take advantage of the fpps and obv if you are at both sites you have the max game selction possible.

Paul

Re: Need help
 

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Having PT and not having an overlay program is like marrying Ms. America and only touching the top half of her.

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Some guys are like that with the top half. I - like you I guess - am a bottom half man myself. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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(For those of you who are curious, I gave up online poker last spring. ... yes, I won a lot and still could easily.)


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Dear Matt,

Please be sure to pass on to your horse that he is indeed a lucky horse (maybe cos he wears 4 horseshoes - having a piece of lucky nailed to each foot can't be bad.) Getting coached by someone Mason considers qualified enough to write an SSNL book must do good things to your EV.

If you don't need your poker brain anymore - can I borrow it for about 2k hands a day? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Full Tilt by a country mile, when you are playing games where the rake counts for a lot Rakeback is huge.

Stars has a bigger playerbase - and going by the law of averages, softer players but I don't think they are soft enough to offset FT's RB & bonuses, tho if you could play at Party...

PA HUD is way better than GT+ (you get what you pay for)

2/4 is midstakes not small stakes - tho once you hit this limit Rakeback starts to matter less.

PS how DO you play AK?? - I swear I'd have a better winrate if I open folded it everytime - something must be wrong there.

Re: Need help
 

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Having PT and not having an overlay program is like marrying Ms. America and only touching the top half of her.

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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doode, do u guys even kno ms. america, she'll be the one doign all the touching.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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PS how DO you play AK?? - I swear I'd have a better winrate if I open folded it everytime - something must be wrong there

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I'm glad you had the nerve to ask that, because I struggle with it as well. If I ever figure it out, I'll write a poohbah post on it. Ironically enough, I'm good with JJ and 76s. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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PS how DO you play AK?? - I swear I'd have a better winrate if I open folded it everytime - something must be wrong there

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I'm glad you had the nerve to ask that, because I struggle with it as well. If I ever figure it out, I'll write a poohbah post on it. Ironically enough, I'm good with JJ and 76s. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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How to play AK: Raise pf, flop and ace, value bet flop, value bet turn, and fold to the check raise on river when villian hits his kicker for two pr.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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Matt,
if your buddy is playing full ring, he is likely to run into 3-4 set miners/ nut peddlars at every table from 50NL to 200NL. Most of them are easy to play against, ie not tricky at all postflop. PokerAce HUD is definitely worth it IMO with pokertracker as well. Reviewing sessions in pokertracker is just so sweet.

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Very good. We'll get PokerAce, and I'll run several dozen hands with him off his pokertracker history.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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Wow, is this really the 100000000th "FT or Stars???!" post. Op should know better

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Sorry man. Once you get old enough around here they let you slide a bit, but I understand it's an imposition. I'll make it up to you in strat posts.

Matt

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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Matt,
if your buddy is playing full ring, .....

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friends don't let friends play full ring. ;-)

but you do make it sound intensely profitable.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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I guess a 3rd thing to. One other option is to spread money on both sites. Take advantage of ft's sign up bonus and rb and learn 6max there. Learn fr on stars and take advantage of the fpps and obv if you are at both sites you have the max game selction possible.

Paul

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that sounds like the battle plan, fading towards FTP due to the rakeback and my love of shorthanded poker.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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Full Tilt: hero raises, villan # 1 re-raises, villan #2 4 bets, hero pushes, villan #1 calls, villan #2 calls. Hero shows AK, villan #1 shows 55, villan #2 shows 66.



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i think we've found the cure for erectile dysfunction.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

Will you coach me? You have a blue name so you must be good or something.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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As far as I know I haven't run into any bots.

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you have.


thanks for the comments on set farmers and the ftp games. i too feel that any set farmer who does not mix in a fair bluffing freqeuncy is toast to a decent player, so hopefully my horse will run over a few of them 3BB at a time. we'll show everyone how to clobber a set farmer -- and how the set farmer can adjust -- but not in volume 1.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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Dear Matt,

Please be sure to pass on to your horse that he is indeed a lucky horse (maybe cos he wears 4 horseshoes - having a piece of lucky nailed to each foot can't be bad.) Getting coached by someone Mason considers qualified enough to write an SSNL book must do good things to your EV.

If you don't need your poker brain anymore - can I borrow it for about 2k hands a day? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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thanks for the compliment. you don't want my brain for 2K hands. it wanders too easily and cannot say no to a pretty waitress.


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PS how DO you play AK?? - I swear I'd have a better winrate if I open folded it everytime - something must be wrong there.

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how do you write a poem?

despite the zen koan sound of that statement, fact is you can win with AK in several different ways. sunny and i play AK very differently. but sunny's got me coming around to his way of thinking. it's his way we'll present in the book, subject to the overarching grand theory of medium and short-stack no-limit. plus his way is really fun.

man i want you guys to make money off the ideas in the book.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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PS how DO you play AK?? - I swear I'd have a better winrate if I open folded it everytime - something must be wrong there

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I'm glad you had the nerve to ask that, because I struggle with it as well. If I ever figure it out, I'll write a poohbah post on it. Ironically enough, I'm good with JJ and 76s. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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i'll be very interested to know if Small Cards changes your play of 76s. when we get to that chapter in the study group / seminar, let me know ok?

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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Will you coach me? You have a blue name so you must be good or something.

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i don't currently give private lessons (horse excepted) because i am so busy with job and family and book and poker. however, once volume 1 comes out, you will get to pick my brain right here in SSNL. Sunny's too.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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As far as I know I haven't run into any bots.

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you have.



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I'd love to hear you elaborate on this.

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

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fact is you can win with AK in several different ways. sunny and i play AK very differently. but sunny's got me coming around to his way of thinking. it's his way we'll present in the book, subject to the overarching grand theory of medium and short-stack no-limit. plus his way is really fun.

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haha, actually I do play it "Matt's" way sometimes when different external factors call for different lines....but don't worry folks, it'll all be explained in the book....I know you guys understand that how to play a particular starting hand often has a lot to do with factors other than the cards themselves....as Matt mentioned, sometimes asking a blanket question about "this or that starting hand" is like asking how to write a poem.....


(oh, and PS- as for the coaching thing, I'll be offering it in a few months after we finish the book, so y'all can contact me then)

Re: Help my horse (and me)
 

damnit, i coulda written a book!

j/k.....when it coming out again?
do you guys still play ssnl?