Tough turn spot
 

this was 10-20 Absolute 6max

The button is a Noles, 33/18/2 against me, he is very aggressive because he thinks I fold, which makes me lol.

SB is some 40-20 lagtard, who has a big ugly fat black guy as an avatar, name escapes me at the moment.

UTG limps, I raise K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the CO, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

4 to flop for 9 sb

FLOP Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG checks, I bet, Button calls, SB calls, UTG folds.


TURN 3 players 6BB


5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, I bet, Button calls, SB check raises,

Pot is now 9BB, what do you do?

Re: Tough turn spot
 

well I don't like folding and 3 balling seems too spewtastic soooo.....

Re: Tough turn spot
 

I'd muck - reads are overrated w/ this action.

Re: Tough turn spot
 

call and maybe fold UI

Re: Tough turn spot
 

assuming SB isn't bad enough to not c/r the flop here with a good hand (most of the time at least), the 5 must have improved his hand

if the 5 improves his hand, he would have to have made 2pair with the 5 or have picked up a draw on the turn

unless he is getting way out of line here the only made hand he can reasonably have that would play this way is J5s, maybe 45s with Q5s being very unlikely

as for draws he can likely have any NFD and also combo draws like 9Tcc

so yah I call down here

Re: Tough turn spot
 

i'd put him on J5s,55 or slowplaying QJ, 44 and very rarely on a draw - even lagtards understand that they are not winning this UI. i don't have a lot of outs against the above range, less than necessary to call and fold the river UI. the other guy can easily have me beat too or has additional outs against me so i don't wanna spend 2BB calling this down. based on this, i fold right away.

Re: Tough turn spot
 

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well I don't like folding and 3 balling seems too spewtastic soooo.....

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But is 3-betting a spew if we decide it is the best way to spend 2BB. Obviously if this was HU with lag Hip would be seeing a SD. So we need to range Noles here. Noles CC PF and doesn't protect on either postflop street. We consider a draw for Noles but what hand would he CC PF that now is drawing KTs?? KQ I think he raises somewhere. Either way I have to consider some kind of draw or AJ for Noles(I don't think he can continue with 88 on the turn). So it seems to me if we decide we want to see a SD (and i think it's close) raising to get Noles to fold a better hand or collect the river bet we will never get from him if he is drawing is the way to go. This is a FSDR of course and we are folding to a turn 3-bet by lag( this may not be an option if we have a read).

Now whats left is for us to decide what hands the lag would play like this and if we are ahead often enough to see a SD

Re: Tough turn spot
 

Put me in call and fold turn UI. If Noles folds I can see an argument for calling the river.

This is slowplayed set, QJ or improved hands like J5s, 54s. Combo hands or big draws like T9cc and A4cc is in his range as well. Dont discount expert slowplay by QQ-AA completely

Cant fold IMO - unless Noles makes it 3 behind us.

Re: Tough turn spot
 

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Dont discount expert slowplay by QQ-AA completely


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haha, i forgot all about that line. used to see it almost every day back when i played live a lot.

Re: Tough turn spot
 

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Put me in call and fold turn UI. If Noles folds I can see an argument for calling the river.

This is slowplayed set, QJ or improved hands like J5s, 54s. Combo hands or big draws like T9cc and A4cc is in his range as well. Dont discount expert slowplay by QQ-AA completely

Cant fold IMO - unless Noles makes it 3 behind us.

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why are you not folding vs the range you gave? how many outs do you give yourself?