stack-a-reg
 

Ok, I dont have the HH for this because Im out of town for a basketball game...I was thinking about this hand and figured I'd post it.

Villain is a solid reg (21/17 I think) at 200NL on FTP...we have a lot of history just being generally insanely aggro preflop..A lot of 3-bets, some 4-bets, but not many showdowns.

I definitely think he's floating the flop a lot...my question is on turn action and making the most +EV play.

Folds around to Hero in SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $8, Villain calls.

Flop ($16) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets $14, Villain calls

Turn ($44) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Villain bets $38, Hero shoves.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

is this for value? my guess is that you're putting him squarely on a float (in which case why are u shoving) or a hand that might call your shove like TJ or T9. (but what other worse hands call?)

but i don't think there's much value in shoving the turn. i think he can play a set like this. when you're drawing dead.

I think it's fine to call the turn and call/fold the river.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

I think I just keep firing here to make my 2 barrels more believable. but this has its advantages as well...

i dunno, we need to know some more about your history imo, like has he seen you do anything really spewy postflop to give you the impression he'll look you up light here? cause if not, then this is pretty bad. but if he has, then this is really hot cause it looks pretty random/bluffy/frustrated.

as far as turn cards go though, thats an ugly one to be pulling this on cause he just hit 2 pair a lot.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

As Thomson says, if he's floating, let him hang himself.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

"as far as turn cards go though, thats an ugly one to be pulling this on cause he just hit 2 pair a lot."

No, he doesn't have T6, T8 if that's what you mean.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

I prefer to fire a 2nd barrell, he is likely to call a bit lighter then the line you took. I don't see what he calls with that we beat when we c/r the turn

Re: stack-a-reg
 

metagame and protection right? meh...

Re: stack-a-reg
 

okay

Re: stack-a-reg
 

ccing no good?

Re: stack-a-reg
 

the concept is fine but i prefer to do this with some sort of redraw

Re: stack-a-reg
 

I c/c here

Re: stack-a-reg
 

I keep on firing usually. Everybody seems to call down super light in BvB.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

i don't get it unless its strictly for metagame

Re: stack-a-reg
 

I don't see you get called by worse

Re: stack-a-reg
 

i like this if he has like 50 bbs
with 100 bbs i seen him possibly having a lot of big hands which will look us up and all worse hands will fold

Re: stack-a-reg
 

I don't like checking the turn because a lot of his range is now pairs+gutshots that take the free river very often, and he may very well shove with those hands if you bet.

It's blind vs blind, you have top pair, you should be looking to get it allin on this type of board.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

you can also c/c the turn as well.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]


Folds around to Hero in SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $8, Villain calls.

Flop ($16) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets $14, Villain calls

Turn ($44) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Villain bets $38, Hero shoves.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol you dont want to get called here. he has turned 2 pair, flopped set, and goofy straights here more than a pure float/worse T i would suspect

Re: stack-a-reg
 

bet turn. checking is for kiddie game down the street

Re: stack-a-reg
 

Very good.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
you can also c/c the turn as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah but the river's going to complete a straight pretty often in which case he'll improve to beat us or he might bluff us off the hand.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

meh. call and let him bluff a scare card.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
Very good.

[/ QUOTE ]
???

Re: stack-a-reg
 

this would be very good if we were shorter (i assume 100bb) because the equity gained by folding him out (money in the pot) would be greater than the potential equity from letting him bluff the river, taking into account that he can suck out

and i suck at math so i cant do it

Re: stack-a-reg
 

Villain never has 2 pair here.

Of course he can play set like this..he can also play a ton of other junk like this as well...and if he calls with better (strong Tx or slowplayed OP) we still have 5 outs.

I think this is a lot better than some semibluffs with no FE that I see some of you advocating all the time, but ok.

For those saying ch/c turn- I think this is definitely a good option as well...what are your plans for a blank river?

For those firing the turn- river plans if called?

Re: stack-a-reg
 

I fail to see why villain can't have T8s or 86s.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Very good.

[/ QUOTE ]
???

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand is great. A lot better than c/c

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
For those saying ch/c turn- I think this is definitely a good option as well...what are your plans for a blank river?

[/ QUOTE ]
c/c any river

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see why villain can't have T8s or 86s.

[/ QUOTE ]ok, he can...but he doesn't have it very often imo...I dont think he's going to play preflop and flop like this with those hands vs me very often.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For those saying ch/c turn- I think this is definitely a good option as well...what are your plans for a blank river?

[/ QUOTE ]
c/c any river

[/ QUOTE ]I think this is awful...I think c/c turn and c/f river is good. Do you really think he is betting worse on the river here after I call turn? ...there would only be ~pot sized bets left.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]

This hand is great. A lot better than c/c

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't get this.

I mean, I love this move with air (with or without outs) vs people who float a lot with air, or with nuts vs people who call flop a lot with good made hands. But why would you want to turn your hand into a bluff here?
Maybe KT/AT could find a fold here (generally doubt it), but very few better hands are folding, and I think very few worse hands (maybe JT) are calling.

I suppose that for protection it might be decent, but that smells more of betting people off their hand instead of making the most money off of them.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

You've entered a very strange place in da pokers. You honestly don't know if you want a call or not. It's not a great place for you or anyone who wants to consistently win at this game.


You need VERY strong reads to make plays like this. You don't have that.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This hand is great. A lot better than c/c

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't get this.

I mean, I love this move with air (with or without outs) vs people who float a lot with air, or with nuts vs people who call flop a lot with good made hands. But why would you want to turn your hand into a bluff here?
Maybe KT/AT could find a fold here (generally doubt it), but very few better hands are folding, and I think very few worse hands (maybe JT) are calling.

I suppose that for protection it might be decent, but that smells more of betting people off their hand instead of making the most money off of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he occasionally folds AT/KT like you said, also occasionally calls with pairs + gutshots/ JT, good for meta, and check/calling just puts you in awful spots on the river.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

He never folds a better hand.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Very good.

[/ QUOTE ]
???

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand is great. A lot better than c/c

[/ QUOTE ]

i figured thats what you meant, but i wasnt sure if you were replying to me, or to the OP, or jsut being sarcastic or w/e.

anyway, why is ch/shove better than c/c tho? i think calling turn and folding river is perfectly fine vs 95% of villains (hardly anyone is floating flop with air, fires turn, then fires again on river unimproved after their huge turn bet was called) and the read on this particular guy does not make me thing hes one of the 5% that makes it a bad play.

i strongly feel that if you this you do NOT want to get called, because even 9T/JT have a very difficult call and those are the only hands that we can realisitcally expect villain to call with with any frequency high enough to make shoving +EV. maybe very very rarely a mid pair+gutshot calls, but OP's read doesnt seem strong enough to make it EV+

Re: stack-a-reg
 

I'd much rather do this with 67 or something even as weak as 65.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For those saying ch/c turn- I think this is definitely a good option as well...what are your plans for a blank river?

[/ QUOTE ]
c/c any river

[/ QUOTE ]I think this is awful...I think c/c turn and c/f river is good. Do you really think he is betting worse on the river here after I call turn? ...there would only be ~pot sized bets left.

[/ QUOTE ]
i think we can safely c/f if a non scare card hits and he bets but i was too lazy to say that

Re: stack-a-reg
 

also i love this play with 67, 78, 9J, sets adn thats about it. i just see regulars playing so spewy against other regulars ALL the time, when usually playing straightforward is way more profitable

Re: stack-a-reg
 

If you guys 2 barrel air here why the hell aren't you doing it for value? If he calls, I prob bet river again depending on how the board gets and expect to get called by all sorts of mid pairish hands.

I just don't see the point of this. You have the top pair. It's blind vs. blind. Just keep on betting.

Re: stack-a-reg
 

fine, but just bet/call he's shoving over a turn bet way more than he's bet/calling. think about his range. it's mostly pairs + draws, so let him put the last bet in thinking he has FE vs a better hand or whatever it is that bad players think