Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

When I first started playing Poker, they told me: "Position is important!" and I tried to act on this advice, not because I fully understood the concept, but because they were telling me so.

After a few weeks playing (and reading) it "clicked" for the first time and I was like: "Position IS important!"

Another few weeks later it "clicked" again and I was like: "Man, position IS REALLY important.

This happened even once or twice more, I keep understanding the concept of position (and poker concepts in general) more and more.

Unfortunately this leads to me being afraid to play ANY hand but monsters from OOP, hence after almost 12K hands on my limit ($25NL) my "Folded SB/BB To Steal" is 92.86 and 84.31 respectively.

Now first of all, am I right assuming that these values are way too high, and if yes, could some of you guys try and explain to me the concept of Blind Defence and how it's done? So maybe I can act on it without fully understanding it until it "clicks" again and I'm like: "Man, Blind Defence IS important!"

Thanks in advance,

Sugar Nut

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

I don't think there are too many people rampantly stealing blinds at 25NL, so playing tight is just fine. In general, what kinds of hands are you playing from the blinds when someone raises preflop? Depending on stack sizes, I'll call with some prospective hands (PPs/scs) and reraise with mid-high pairs, AQ+, and on rare occasion, bupkes. lol

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

Work in some 3betting against over aggro players who are abusing their position.

When I tightened up in the blinds, I saw an increase in my profits.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

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hence after almost 12K hands on my limit ($25NL) my "Folded SB/BB To Steal" is 92.86 and 84.31 respectively.

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Which is fine, i think.

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Now first of all, am I right assuming that these values are way too high, and if yes, could some of you guys try and explain to me the concept of Blind Defence and how it's done?

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Defending your position is way more important than defending your blinds. If the player to your right steals a lot, you should be 3-betting him with position more often than without. Hence, don't defend the small blind against a button raiser often, but do defend the button against a cutoff raiser frequently (assuming he has a high steal percentage, of course).

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

If CO or BTN has an attempt to steal blinds percentage that is significantly higher than his PFR%, then you know that he is stealing with weaker than normal holdings. Vs that guy, you can occasionally fight back from the BB when it's heads up by either reraising and cb'ing with good but not-great hands, or you might just use a stop & go by calling with any 2 playable cards and firing a pot-sized bet at any flop. You only have to play back occasionally to get him to raise your blind a little more cautiously in a FR game. In general, however, you are right to not worry too much about defending your blinds at FR.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

Get your HUD up, ID the looser tagfish (13/8+, fold to flop bet over 60%), and start coldcalling out of the blinds and donking out 3/4 PSB on almost any flop. Turbofolds. Boatloads of fun once you realize who these guys are.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

Dan Bright had a reall good post on blind defense once... I cannot find it

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

I don't think those numbers are bad. Mine are 90 and 76, over 102K at $100NL and I'm not too worried.

As already mentioned, speculative hands are OK to play from the blinds but, imo, only if you've got at least 2 or 3 others in the hand for some value. 78s and 33 are not good hands to play against one player who is probably stealing but can win you plenty of cash in aggressive, multi-way pots. They're also easy to play - either you hit your hand on the flop or you don't. Of course, you're playing rather than defending your blind with those hands.

Don't be afraid to really stick it to someone who you is likely to be stealing when you really do have a hand. Use PT and PAHUD or GT+ to check out somebody's stealing stats when you're deciding whether to play back at them or not. Somebody who's doing it >30% definitely deserves to get 3-betted hard when you've got AK-AQs and pairs all the way down to, say, 99.

Also, on the other side of this coin, check out this nice little Poo-Bah by MyTurn2Raise:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...p;vc=1&nt=3

I'm sure there's far more money to be made from this play, than trying to defend your blinds too much as a matter of principle!

gl

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

man don't play just reraise

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

I am a position nit. For the longest time I would not defend my blinds. Finally, though, I started realizing that it isn't hard to figure out who is raising light from LP and then 3bettting them.

If you 3bet you aren't going to end up playing out of position because you usually aren't called. And when you ARE called you'll have a monster pot in which you'll have first bluffing position, which actually isn't bad. I mean, the value of position is information, but once you are in a HU pot with stacks very short relative to the blinds information is much less valuable than aggression. It's not like villain will easily be able to float you when he'll have to push the turn just to make a credible bluff.

You'll be able to force villain to make a stack decision without committing your own, and acting first in such a situation often gives you a better chance to win the pot than acting second.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

No reason to defend your blinds other than 3betting a little wider.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

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No reason to defend your blinds other than 3betting a little wider.

[/ QUOTE ]The reason to defend your blinds is when you know players are raising hands in LP that they'll fold to a 3bet, so against these opponents 3betting is more profitable than folding.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

Unless you're defending to make your image good there's no reason to do it. 3bet the high attempt to steal people with cbet fold % of >70 infrequently.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

I will add that I tend to "defend" against LP raises more from the button than the blinds . . .

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

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Unless you're defending to make your image good there's no reason to do it. 3bet the high attempt to steal people with cbet fold % of >70 infrequently.

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Uh, what? This makes opposite-sense to me.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

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Unless you're defending to make your image good there's no reason to do it. 3bet the high attempt to steal people with cbet fold % of >70 infrequently.

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Uh, what? This makes opposite-sense to me.

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He's saying infrequently as opposed to never. 3betting like 20% is just way too high.

Just steal more than you get stolen from. Thats the real key.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

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Unless you're defending to make your image good there's no reason to do it. 3bet the high attempt to steal people with cbet fold % of >70 infrequently.

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Uh, what? This makes opposite-sense to me.

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He's saying infrequently as opposed to never. 3betting like 20% is just way too high.

Just steal more than you get stolen from. Thats the real key.

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Ok, got it. I thought he meant "infrequently" as in "these are bad people to 3-bet light", which obviously is not the case.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

Wow, thanks guys,
I didn't think my post would get this much attention. I just got home from work and had a couple of drinks afterwards with my boss, so I will fully digest all this and the Pooh-Bah posts (what does Pooh-Bah mean BTW?) when I'm awake and my brain works again.
so far I just want to thank all of you for contributing to this thread teaching a sucker.

Sugar Nut

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

Your under title becomes Pooh Bah after your 1600th post and people usually make a special post for that occasion.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

Sorry, my question was not specific enough. That I know, but what does it actually mean? Or is it just some kind of fantasy name someone made up out of nowhere?

Sugar Nut

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

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I am a position nit. For the longest time I would not defend my blinds. Finally, though, I started realizing that it isn't hard to figure out who is raising light from LP and then 3bettting them.

If you 3bet you aren't going to end up playing out of position because you usually aren't called. And when you ARE called you'll have a monster pot in which you'll have first bluffing position, which actually isn't bad. I mean, the value of position is information, but once you are in a HU pot with stacks very short relative to the blinds information is much less valuable than aggression. It's not like villain will easily be able to float you when he'll have to push the turn just to make a credible bluff.

You'll be able to force villain to make a stack decision without committing your own, and acting first in such a situation often gives you a better chance to win the pot than acting second.

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I've been thinking about this concept lately. This reasoning has lead to me 3-bet semi-bluffing a little lighter against potential blind stealers. I haven't got my own reasoning thought through well enough to explain it though.

Re: Poker Theory: Position and Blind Defence
 

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I am a position nit. For the longest time I would not defend my blinds. Finally, though, I started realizing that it isn't hard to figure out who is raising light from LP and then 3bettting them.

If you 3bet you aren't going to end up playing out of position because you usually aren't called. And when you ARE called you'll have a monster pot in which you'll have first bluffing position, which actually isn't bad. I mean, the value of position is information, but once you are in a HU pot with stacks very short relative to the blinds information is much less valuable than aggression. It's not like villain will easily be able to float you when he'll have to push the turn just to make a credible bluff.

You'll be able to force villain to make a stack decision without committing your own, and acting first in such a situation often gives you a better chance to win the pot than acting second.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking about this concept lately. This reasoning has lead to me 3-bet semi-bluffing a little lighter against potential blind stealers. I haven't got my own reasoning thought through well enough to explain it though.

[/ QUOTE ]FWIW, the value of "first bluffing position" is well known to tournament players, which is where I got my start. It's important in tournaments because usually you're playing so short that a half pot bet can easily force villain to commit his stack just to find out if you are bluffing or not. Playing with 100BB stacks, you usually don't have this kind of leverage. 3bet pots, though, can have this same dynamic I've found. Also, I think bigger pots lessen the value of position because you'll have less to go on by the time you have to make your commitment decisions.