Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

I need help with this whole hand.

3rd: This is a pretty [censored] bad hand. Couldn't resist calling with only 3 low upcards and the bring-in. Is a call just terrible?

4th: Absolute best possible card and I still can't raise.

5th: Should I raise here? I define my hand completely if I do IMO, so I may not get a free card on 6th if I miss anyway.

6th: Raising here is fairly obvious right? Any reason to just call?

Overall comments about play?

7 Card Stud High-Low ($3/$6), Ante $0,50, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls

4th Street - (5.67 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (4.83 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (8.83 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises

River - (14.83 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks___folds
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___checks___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

Total pot: (14.83 BB - $89)

Re: Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

I muck this on 3rd. This hand is just too crappy even with a 1/3 SB discount.
As played, i think you should raise 4th with the A2 showing. You have to at least try and get the A7 low out.
The rest of the hand is fine IMO.

Re: Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

Probably fold third. Three-card Eights suck. There's an excellent chance that you've got the third-best low draw, and you have no credible high shot.

Unless you hit the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I'd consider raising fourth. I'd definitely lean towards raising fifth. Are $3/6 players really thinking that much about what you have? Seems to me that they'll call if you hit anyway. Once you hit your flush, you keep your foot to the gas until someone gives you a reason not to. Nice hand.

Re: Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

Third is an easy fold against that many low cards. Your hand is an easy call against two high upcards and an instant fold when another low sneaks in with them.

Fourth is okay unless you think you can raise the other low hand out, which is unlikely.

Raising 5th would be reasonable, but I would wait till 6th to possibly raise. Raising 6th if you can would give you a better shot at eliminating the low draw and save you money if you catch total garbage. If you hit a low card on 6th that doesn't openly pair you, you have a reasonable chance of forcing out the low draw, and winning high would guarantee the scoop.

Re: Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

As everyone had said fold third. A 5 and a 7 are already in the pot and you've got a terrible hand in both directions.

Re: Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

Why couldn't you resist calling the raise on 3rd? I could see if you were the only low hand in the pot (which is when these raggy low draws have their place), but when 2 other low hands already limped in, this should be an easy fold.

I raise 4th---take control of the hand, maybe get a free card, fold someone off, whatever. Raise 5th. But if you don't raise 5th, then raising 6th is not mandatory (because we're looking for ways that can allow you to scoop the whole thing) especially if you feel that the King is going to bet again on the river. What's probably going to happen on the river is, the A7 will check, the King will bet, and you can now raise, representing that you were chasing a low draw...finally hit it, and now you'll be facing the A7 hand with 2 cold bets, and if he doesn't make a low or a really good low hand, then he might just give it up and that's the way that you can scoop the pot. By raising 6th, then the betting will probably go check, check to you, and then you'll only be facing the A7 hand with 1 bet, and you'll have less scooping opportunities that way.

Re: Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

I doubt I can get him to fold any made low. For this reason, I believe in raising 6th so that I get paid by him drawing at least.

Re: Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

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7 Card Stud High-Low ($3/$6), Ante $0,50, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls

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Unlike everyone else, I'd play this. I wouldn't play it in Razz, but it's exactly the kind of hand I scoop with, but I play at lower limits. You have suited connectors and three lo cards. I'm seeing 4th.

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5th Street - (4.83 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

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I'm raising. Now I have a real chance to scoop, and if I am getting a half I want a big one. Get some money in here. I don't think anyone is going anywhere.

Re: Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

It IS a really terrible starting hand. It is NOT a scooping hand

Re: Stud8 - flush + lowdraw
 

[ QUOTE ]
It IS a really terrible starting hand. It is NOT a scooping hand

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you are right and it's why I don't play this that much. I used to, it was like a license to print money, at first. But .04/.08 is just too uneven with too many weird plays and I got too confused. Sometimes I play it at that level during early parts of a Razz trny to keep myself occupied.

Once I finished just barely ITM in the 1$ on PStars and made like, .67 net and made two bucks playing 8oB. At any rate, you're right. But I'd play it anyway. Of course, it's only another .02.