Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

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life expectancy in Zimbabwe is 37 years, the lowest in the world.

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In all fairness, this statistic is as much a result of violence as health/nutrition problems.

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Nice!

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

Jammy,

WOW! Didn't actually think Mugabe apologists existed?

Learn something new every day.

Not liking murdering filth makes people racists. OK makes sense.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

Who is a Mugabe apologist?

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

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OK, to clear a couple of things up.

The biggest decline in life expectancy is overwhelmingly down to aids. If you look at all the countries in that region, tehy've all seen a drop of 15-20 years in a similar period, so I wouldn't read too much into that.

Secondly, its not justa bout the right to vote, self-determination etc, as if the Rhodesian government was just carrying on peacefully but with no rights for blacks. Their was a brutal civil war, with major atrocieties carried out admittedly by both sides.

And mugabe's not great, but if he hadn't picked on a few white farmers who directly fund conservative lobbies in the UK, no one would have heard of him.

I'm not excusing him, but their are a lot worse dictators in africa who get much more support, so people need to wonder why he gets singled out.

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People have heard of Mugabe because he destroyed the second wealthiest country in Africa. Nobody talks about the other dictators because they ruled over countries that were already stuck in the dark ages. Mugabe inherited a country with first world infrastructure (built by whom?), and he flushed it down the toilet.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

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True. Even though the current leader of the nation is an even bigger [censored] that is no excuse for the actions carried out by Ian Smith´s government.

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The actions carried out by Ian Smith were to prevent people like Mugabe from coming to power. The fact that Rhodesia was as successful as it was despite being landlocked in the poorest continent in the world is nothing short of amazing, and is due in large part to the governance of Ian Smith and his predecessors.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

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True. Even though the current leader of the nation is an even bigger [censored] that is no excuse for the actions carried out by Ian Smith´s government.

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The actions carried out by Ian Smith were to prevent people like Mugabe from coming to power. The fact that Rhodesia was able to build a first world infrastructure despite being landlocked in the poorest continent in the world is nothing short of amazing, and is due in large part to the governance of Ian Smith and his predecessors.

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So to clarify, you support brutally racist opressive regimes? And you expect to be taken seriously?

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The actions carried out by Ian Smith were to prevent people like Mugabe from coming to power.

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You mean black people? Yeah. Thanks for letting me know not to take you serously.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

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You mean black people? Yeah. Thanks for letting me know not to take you serously.

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I mean people who support communist regimes that have no respect for private property or sound fiscal policies, many of of whom happen be black. The fact that many black people fall into that category is not my fault. But I should note that there are many older black Zimbabweans who look back fondly on Rhodesia and call themselves Rhodesians.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

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It's the generalization I object to

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What generalization, that repressive regimes have negative effects many years after they are out of power?

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That said, I don't think it's shown that Smith caused Mugabe.

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Mugabe built his reputation and popularity fighting against the minority government, considering Smith was the face of that government for 15 years, you would be pretty hard pressed to come up with any argument whereby Smith didn't play an extremely important role in Mugabe's rise to power and the limited options of Blacks in the first mixed elections.

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Mandela.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

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You mean black people? Yeah. Thanks for letting me know not to take you serously.

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I mean people who support communist regimes that have no respect for private property or sound fiscal policies, many of of whom happen be black. The fact that many black people fall into that category is not my fault. But I should note that there are many older black Zimbabweans who look back fondly on Rhodesia and call themselves Rhodesians.

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No see, you don't understand. Ian Smith's actions literally prevented black people from taking power. That is what I would consider a blatantly racist opressive regime.

To celebrate him is to celebrate brutally racist opressive governments. There aren't two ways about it here.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

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Jammy,

WOW! Didn't actually think Mugabe apologists existed?

Learn something new every day.

Not liking murdering filth makes people racists. OK makes sense.

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Don't be such an insulting prick. I was protesting against Mugabe before you could have even pointed out Zimbabwe on a map...

There's big problems with the western coverage of Zimbabwe, and you don't need to be a mugabe supporter or apologis to realise that.

In 1980 when Mugabe came to power and he rigged the elections, no one said a word in the west.

When his North Korean trained 5th brigade massacred 10,000 zapu supporters in matabeleland, and raped and beat thousands more, no one said a word of protest.

When mugabe rigged every presidential and parliamentary election from 1980 onwards and beat and arrested opposition supporters, no one said a word.

As long as Mugabe left the white farmers alone, left them their land and allowed the tobacco shipments to keep being exported, no one gave a [censored] what Mugabe was up to.

Then suddenly, a few thousand white farmers lose their land, and half a dozen get killed and suddenly Zimbabwe is big news, getting more coverage than any of the other dictators in Africa who are as bad or worse.

Do you not think that there is some hypocrisy here? Some racism? SOmething wrong that makes the lively-hoods of a few whites be valued more than the lives of 1000s of blacks?

At independence, Ian Smith and Britain essentially made a deal with Mugabe that he could do whatever the hell he liked as long as he left the white farmers alone, it was only once he broke that deal that they started opposing him.

So don't call me a [censored] apologist, until you have an understanding of african politics that goes above what you can get out off a 2 minute tv news headline.

The way to deal with murdering bastards like mugabe and saddam is not to ignore them for 20 years and then get all outraged when they bite the hand that feeds them. To do so is hypocricy on a staggering scale.