Fun w/ JJ
 

Bellagio 15-30. UTG is very loose and passive and dumb, button is also not smart but is perhaps more creative.

Preflop:
UTG limps, MP limps, The Dude raises 3 off the button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Button coldcalls, BB calls, limpers calls.

Flop: (10.67 SBs) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 Players)</font>
Checked to The Dude who checks. Button bets, only UTG calls, The Dude calls.

Turn: (6.8 BBs) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (3 Players)</font>
UTG checks, The Dude bets without really having more of a plan.

Comments?

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

I insta bet this flop and look real confident in doing so.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

Wow. I surprisingly like the flop check here. I don't want BTN to raise and iso us with a range that includes Ac/Qc and I really want to see a turn card. Inducing bluffs is decent as well. The main problem I have with betting the flop is that we're putting in too many bets on the flop if we get raised and call, but that there's no way you're taking this pot down here with a bet.

I like the turn too. Turn should be a bet/fold depending on how it comes back to you. Please post whatever action comes next after some discussion.

nh so far, sir.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

I think a flop bet will drop everyone w/o a club or a K, will likel ybuy the button for the rest of the hand, and generally makes it easier to play. If I check, its probably with the intention of floding.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

I don't like the turn bet. Anyone who has a half a brain should be able to figure out you don't have a boat, flush, or king...which means they can raise you off the hand with impunity.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the turn bet. Anyone who has a half a brain should be able to figure out you don't have a boat, flush, or king...which means they can raise you off the hand with impunity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? This line looks likes an attempt to 3-bet.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

When I first looked at this I was like WTF no flop bet? but then I thought about it some more and this whole line seems brilliant. You avoid being bluff raised with Acx on the flop, you dont give a free card on the turn, and you have an easy fold if you get raised on the turn. Not to mention you get to see the turn card for cheap (easy fold if a club obv).

Very informative, op.

question: whats our line with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the turn bet. Anyone who has a half a brain should be able to figure out you don't have a boat, flush, or king...which means they can raise you off the hand with impunity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? This line looks likes an attempt to 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not kidding. To me, this looks like an attempt to buy the pot with a mid-pair + 1 club. If I was in the hand and flopped a set, a flush, TPTK, or AQ with a nut/2nd nut flush draw, I would auto-bet the flop...maybe when I reach 1000 posts I can add the part about "not betting the flop in a 5-way pot with a real hand is burning money".

Just because I haven't posted 1000's of times doesn't mean that I haven't played &gt;500k hands.

Also, this is a 15 game at the Bellagio...perhaps I am making the comment w.r.t the game OP is actually playing. And yes, I have played the 15 &amp; 30 at the Bellagio.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

Aggression from a TAG gere is rarely the intent to bet/call. That said it's plausible that a donk here is usually an attempt to bet/fold or bet/3bet. Given that understanding, anyone who's has a lone club won't be raising this turn. Not sure if this villain will suscribe to this train of thought though. However, to telegraph that Hero is ALWAYS bet/folding here is a large fallacy.

I don't believe I made any mention to the number of hands a poster has to have to make a comment. I also never siad it was pre-requisite to have played in the game. That [censored]'s all in your head.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

were you betting the turn if it was the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
were you betting the turn if it was the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]
The way the flop action went, yeah. I checked the flop looking for more information, since I don't think betting lets me know anything about where I'm at. If it had come back to me for two bets I'd have folded, or if it went bet-call-call-call I'd have folded. As is, I felt like there was a pretty good chance my hand was ahead after it came back to me on the flop.

The turn card happened to be just about the best card possible for me, but I would have bet most non-[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]s.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

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[ QUOTE ]
were you betting the turn if it was the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

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The way the flop action went, yeah.

[/ QUOTE ]

gotcha. i was curious as to how much the King pairing induced you to bet versus it just being a safe card. fwiw, i agree with the rest of your points and like the hand.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

I've thought about it more and I like the check a fair bit more than a bit. First, a checkraise is coming lots here which let's you just fold and still have $30. Second it's not like betting folds anyone you want to fold. Third it's good for balance, [censored] with people.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

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I think a flop bet will drop everyone w/o a club or a K, will likel ybuy the button for the rest of the hand, and generally makes it easier to play.

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Betting gets me no valuable information whatsoever, and will often force me to fold what might be the best hand.

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If I check, its probably with the intention of floding.

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There a lot of ways the action can come back to me that would make me fold, and I'm totally happy with that.

Re: Fun w/ JJ
 

I play it the same, except I feel dirty after calling the flop bet and my turn plan often doesn't work out.